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[rekenne]

A level-less RPG - a noble sentiment.

There actually have been a few (console) RPGs that have done this - Notably, the SaGa series of games, which, in the US, includes the Final Fantasy Legend GB games, as well as SaGa Frontier 1 and 2 on PSX. Final Fantasy 2, as well, went with a level-less system. In the both games, you leveled up in a number of ways, such as buying stat increases from stores, eating monster meat/equipping parts dropped by monsters, and random small stat gains after combat.

Chrono Cross slightly did this, in that you gained "levels", but only at certain plot points, so your level was fixed.

... Aside from that, though, I can't think of any other examples.

Now, in P+P games, it's actually more the norm to be levelless, anymore.

[Upaut]

Final Fantasy 2, as well, went with a level-less system. In the both games, you leveled up in a number of ways, such as buying stat increases from stores, eating monster meat/equipping parts dropped by monsters, and random small stat gains after combat.

Correction:  Final Fantasy Legend 2, not Final Fantasy 2.  The former you described, the latter had levels, despite skills being learned from actually performing tasks (i.e. using a weapon, casting a spell).

Chrono Cross slightly did this, in that you gained "levels", but only at certain plot points, so your level was fixed.

Correction:  You gained levels, yes, but not at any certain time.  Techniques, however, were fixed at plot points (of which, I can't remember any of them besides the body switch).  I will however point out that, more often than not, you gained levels after boss fights.  I do remember it being rather a pain in the butt to get those blasted rainbow shells and other assorted scraps to make the better equipment.

...I wonder what ever happened to the badly named Chrono Time...

[Darkwaterotter]

Do you think it would be possible to get to lvl 20 if you kill all the enemies in every level on Ao100
itd be hell of a lot of work but could it be done?

[Titt]

On M difficulty you wouldn't even be close--completing Ao100 on M with 98% or 99% kills gets me only to 19/2% experience.

Someone with one of the cheat programs that searches for a string of values in RAM and then lets you edit the values at that address might take this on as an experiment--use the cheat program to freeze your health at maximum while playing a game of Ao100 on Nightmare, clear out every level completely and use every possible monster-summoning lever as many times as possible, and see if you make it to level 20 before finishing level 100.

[Blade]

You won't get enough. On UV if you will kill 100% of monsters, you will get only approximately 4% exp. Levers maybe will add 1%, but I doubt it. The only possible way is to use an editing tool and to try to set your level to 19 and your exp to 99%. But there's no point in doing so, because, as Kornel said, the game will anyway crash when you will reach 20-th level.

[Darkwaterotter]

Someone with one of the cheat programs that searches for a string of values in RAM and then lets you edit the values at that address might take this on as an experiment--use the cheat program to freeze your health at maximum while playing a game of Ao100

you mean like hexadecimal right

[Deathpenalty]

I tested it out with a hex editor. 1,000,000 exp will get you to level 19/9%. Raising yourself to level 20 will indeed crash the game. It is impossible to reach that high of a level anyways, even in Ao100.

[007bistromath]

Paranoia

ROYGBIV

[raekuul]

Getting back to the topic: Kornel, I could check if the game crashes as Lv. 20, if only I knew what numbers to look for when gaining EXP.

Cheating programs + Research applications = FOR THE GREATER GOOD

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

In the current beta neither does it crash, nor rise above 20 ( and yeah, level 20 is now reachable :) ).

[raekuul]

Semi-related note: how much EXP does a former human give?

[Malek Deneith]

23xp

Such info is available on wiki ;) (it might not be properly maintained lately, but there still is a lot of stuff to read :P)

[raekuul]

I did manage to cause an EXP Overflow crash when I forced Lv. 20. I'll try and pull the error message out if I do it again. Which I will ;)

Code: [Select]

oFire -- Choose target... The barrel explodes! The former human dies. You
Eadvance to level 20! <Enter> Game saved. Press <Enter> to exit.
  $0044DDBF  TPLAYER__ADDEXP,  line 145 of dfplayer.pas those pesky bullets
  $00464908  TBEING__KILL,  line 975 of dfbeing.pas.
  $004660F6  TBEING__APPLYDAMAGE,  line 1213 of dfbeing.pas
  $0046BDC6  TLEVEL__EXPLOSION,  line 721 of dflevel.pas
  $00421D3E  LUA_LEV_EXPLOSION,  line 664 of doomlua.pas
  $000E54E1      (2)
  $000E58A2nails(2) to unlock
  $000E5AC12) to unlock
  $00424E91  TDOOMLUA__CALLHOOK,  line 1312 of doomlua.pas
  $0046A9A2  TLEVEL__DAMAGETILE,  line 512 of dflevel.pas
  $00466658  TBEING__SENDMISSILE,  line 1298 of dfbeing.pas
  $00461E54  TBEING__FIRE,  line 599 of dfbeing.pas
  $00450883  TPLAYER__DOFIRE,  line 676 of dfplayer.pas
  $00451FA5  TPLAYER__AICONTROL,  line 946 of dfplayer.pas
  $00463935  TBEING__ACTION,  line 818 of dfbeing.pas
  $00463A95  TBEING__CALL,  line 830 of dfbeing.pas
  $0046CC9D  TLEVEL__TICK,  line 837 of dflevel.pas

Abnormal program termination! Please write down the above
to help get rid DoomRL of all those bugs! You only need
to write down the filenames and linenumbers.
Attempting to save game.... Press <Enter>

Shot a pistol to blow up a barrel, killed two Former Humans and a Chaingunner. 0.9.8.10

[Blade]

  $0044DDBF  TPLAYER__ADDEXP,  line 145 of dfplayer.pas those pesky bullets

LOL'd.))

[Anarchic Fox]

Is there any solid gameplay reason to not have higher experience levels than nineteen?  They wouldn't come into play during regular games, which can only go to level fourteen or fifteen (on UV).  They would only matter in Ao100 games, and the main attraction of that challenge is the fact that it lets you build a ridiculously powerful player, so higher levels seems reasonable for them.