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[Darkwaterotter]

i Seem to have a problem. in the older version of DoomRL before Arch-Vials and Revenants i didn't seem to have a problem going through Hell and killing the Cyberdemon.
but now it is like 30 times harder because of the Arch-Vials and Revenants

so my question is this...
is there a tactic or something im missing or are the Arch-Vials and Revenants overpowered
i mean don't get me wrong im glad they where added but now it seems that the reason of my death
is now because of an Arch-Vial or a Revenant. is anyone else having this problem or is it just me?
Because it is becoming very Frustrating and i want to know if anything will be done to balance the game to a degree.

[LockeCarnelia]

They're supposed to be hard.

There's strategies to use against them, yes, but all the times I've encountered them I've been lucky enough to have an Invulnerability Globe working for me.

So basically, if you have an Inv Globe, just shoot til everything dies.

Good strategy in general, really.

[skarczew]

is there a tactic or something im missing or are the Arch-Vials and Revenants overpowered

Yes they are.

Tactics I found so far:
1. Invulnerability.
2. Berserk (remember to remove armor if you get it).
3. If you have few Supercharges on level, use one and engage while having over 100% HP.
4. If you can use ranged weapons, kill them outside their sight range. You need Cateye*2 and some space to run back when they start walking in your direction. And remove any equipment that slows you.
5. If you have good armor, engage R's face to face.
6. Use field of barrels: lure near them, then cause chain explosion.
7. Use BFG or other haxor weapon.

[Zarin]

BFG and rocket launcher are the weapon of choice against Arch-Viles.  They raise corpses (even before they see you - I consider that a bug, but what do I know?) and hide behind, so you need an area of effect weapon to get through to them.  And double shotgun is not good enough - it is a short-range weapon!  You'll just die trying to get to them...

Revenants do not pose that much of a problem if you do it properly.  First, do not hesitate to use Rocket Launchers - they drop enough ammo for you to restock.  Second, Rocket Launchers push them back, which is a huge plus.  You have time to reload while they walk back towards you.

One of the tactics I found useful: when you have Cateye(2), you can kill pretty much anything but fliers (most notably Cacodemons) if it stands behind a stream of lava.  Stand just outside their field of vision and shoot with your weapon of choice (two pistols, chaingun, plasma rifle, etc.) while they stand there helplessly.  Even Barons and Arch-Viles do not dare to wade through lava (only demons do).  Just be careful if you are using rockets - you might destroy a piece of wall and open a way around that lava patch for them...

[Darkwaterotter]

That is all true
however it seems that arch-vials raise the dead too quickly
i think there should be some kind of "charge time" if they dont already
it would make things a little more bearable

[LockeCarnelia]

If you have played Doom 2, you know for a fact that Arch Viles, when they ressurect, NEVER.  EVER. Charge up.  Ever.

[skarczew]

They charge up when they attack (the player starts to see the flames around him - if he manage to disappear from their vision the attack will stop  - otherwise he is taking damage; the whole attack takes few seconds from what I remember).
From what I remember their resurrection was point blank, not ranged.

[Visalos]

is there a tactic or something im missing or are the Arch-Vials and Revenants overpowered

Yes they are.

Tactics I found so far:
1. Invulnerability.
2. Berserk (remember to remove armor if you get it).
3. If you have few Supercharges on level, use one and engage while having over 100% HP.
4. If you can use ranged weapons, kill them outside their sight range. You need Cateye*2 and some space to run back when they start walking in your direction. And remove any equipment that slows you.
5. If you have good armor, engage R's face to face.
6. Use field of barrels: lure near them, then cause chain explosion.
7. Use BFG or other haxor weapon.

1. duh :P
2. never thought to remove the armor. 'course i'm the type to always have an extra pair of clean shorts.
3. yup.
4. even better if you can kill them outside YOUR sight range.
5. If you have poor armor or no armor, engage R's face to face. see my recent post about shotguns :P (kudos on properly punctuating R's!)
6. yup.
7. Have a good trait build. Do lots of damage with your chosen weapon right fast, or be uber nimble, or uber tough or whatever. play to your strengths.

[skarczew]

1. duh :P
2. never thought to remove the armor. 'course i'm the type to always have an extra pair of clean shorts.
3. yup.
4. even better if you can kill them outside YOUR sight range.
5. If you have poor armor or no armor, engage R's face to face. see my recent post about shotguns :P (kudos on properly punctuating R's!)
6. yup.
7. Have a good trait build. Do lots of damage with your chosen weapon right fast, or be uber nimble, or uber tough or whatever. play to your strengths.

2. Murphy Law says for me that I will have no armor if I don't remove it while in berserk.
4. Yeah, that works too. Just it cost a lot of ammo usually (not in sight = additional chance to miss).

[Darkwaterotter]

Alright
that is all good to know
but what do you guys think is better to use to kill them
a double shotgun or chain gun...

[skarczew]

I play AoMr lately so I kill them with Pistols only :P .

In other words - use the best weapon you can find for them.

[Visalos]

Alright
that is all good to know
but what do you guys think is better to use to kill them
a double shotgun or chain gun...

generally? you want to engage the V and the R point blank, so shotgun.

[LockeCarnelia]

Enemies always do less damage in melee range than from afar, unless they're designed for Melee.  So yes, up close and personal is best.