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Author Topic: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0  (Read 13702 times)

LoneVandal

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My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« on: February 28, 2009, 10:49 »

First, I want to thank Kornel for this amazing game.  After playing DooM RL obsessively for the last few days I wanted to share my observations.   There are some ways I think DooM RL could get even better, despite how good it is now.  My total experience is about 50 games and I've attempted both the AoM and AoBs enough to get the first rank up from them.  Would have finished Hurt Me Plenty except that I took a (fatal) detour into the Mortuary on floor 22.  I actually did make it to the stairs out of there but I wanted to try to clear the map...

I've been trying to organize my thoughts for this post and the best way I can do that is with my dream patch notes for v1.0.  Please read the entire list before you decide something sounds like a bad idea, as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, with the end result being Shotguns, Armor, and Mods being made much more useful and the Traits being brought more in line with each other:

General Gameplay

- Unique Items, Thermonuclear Bombs, and Homing Phase Devices taken out of the Standard and Challenge game modes, you can now find them only in the Ao 100 floor mode.  Both modes have been balanced to account for this change and should have a unique feel while played.
- Monster hp raised slightly to compensate for new higher minimum and average weapon damages
- Advanced Weapon drop rate increased in Standard and Challenge game modes to compensate for no longer getting Uniques
- Levers can no longer turn rooms / entire floors into lava or acid, or destroy ALL walls in Standard or Challenge game modes
- New Tactic Added - (S)neaking
- Sneaking makes you invisible to monsters farther than 5 squares away from you, but lowers movement speed by 50% and is reverted to "Cautious" or "Tired" immediately upon attacking or being attacked, and cannot be re-used for 100 seconds
- Melee damage caused by most monsters increased (not for FH soldiers), monster melee accuracy increased across the board
to compensate for the new Knife Fighter Trait and melee weapon Dodge (Parry) Mod

Weapons

- Extended Weapons removed from all modes
- Advanced Weapons reduced to 3 Mod slots by default
- "Regular" Shotgun removed from game
- Advanced Knives and Chainsaws added to loot table, Chainsaw spawn chance increased slightly
- Weapon damage rolls normalized (xd3 based on ammo type) for more predictable damage and easier balancing with new Weapon Mods (could also easily allow for multiple ammo types per weapon in mods / later features)
- Average damage of all weapons increased as a result
- Combat Knife changed to 3d3 base damage
- Chainsaw changed to 9d3 base damage (buffed to compensate for nerf to Brute, and to be kept viable as a melee build main weapon vs. dual knives)
- Pistol changed to 3d3 base damage - Buffed slightly as compensation for the stacking direct +dmg Traits (SoG, SoB) going away
- Combat Shotgun buffed to 8d3 and can now be repeat fired while standing still like any other gun
- Double Barrel Shotgun damage changed to 8d3 x 2 shots to allow more benefit from the new Weapon Damage Mod, Trigger Happy Trait, and can now be upgraded by Magazine Mods
- Combat Shotgun and DB Shotgun bullet spread can be condensed by weapon +acc mods for more concentrated damage at longer ranges
- Chaingun changed to 3d3 x 4 shots, magazine changed to 40 rounds, inventory stacks changed to 80 rounds (dmg slightly buffed as SoB Trait is gone)
- Rocket Launcher changed to 12d3 base damage, can now accept Magazine Mods
- Plasma Rifle changed to 5d3 x 4 shots, magazine changed to 20 rounds, inventory stacks changed to 40 rounds - Lowered # of shots for less wasted ammo on overkills, and limits benefit from certain Traits and Mods

Traits

- Ironman removed
- Son of a Bitch removed
- Trigger Happy now available from game start, effects the DB Shotgun IF you've modified it to hold more than 2 shells
- Reloader - now reduces reload time on all weapons by 25% at rank 1, 50% at rank 2 (max)
- Eagle Eye reduced to 2 ranks max
- Tough As Nails reduced to 2 ranks max
- New Trait - Quick Recovery, unlocked by 2 ranks in Tough as Nails
- Quick Recovery heals the player for 2% every 10 steps at rank 1, 4% hp / 10 steps at rank 2 (max) up to 100% hp
- New Trait - Rocket Jockey, unlocked by Tough as Nails rank 2
- Rocket Jockey - Damage sustained by AoE effects (demons', barrels, or your own) reduced by 20% per rank (2 ranks)
- Badass reduced to 2 ranks, 1st rank triples duration of bonus hp, 2nd rank removes bonus hp decay
- Finesse now gives a 10% chance per rank, per shot fired, to cause a "critical" hit for max damage rolls (i.e. 8d3 Shotgun will do 24 damage) with all weapon types (including melee)
- Finesse no longer reduces firing time
- Whiz Kid renamed Gun Nut and made available at game start
- Gun Nut now increases weapon mod slots by 1 per rank on all weapon types (weapon mods have been improved)
- New Trait - Reverse Engineer, unlocked by rank 2 Gun Nut
- Reverse Engineer - Allows you to (D)ismantle an equippable item (weapon, armor, or boot) in your inventory with a 20% chance to create a random Mod (for the same item type), and 50% chance to recover installed Mods, but the item is destroyed
- New Trait - Armorer, unlocked by rank 1 Gun Nut
- Armorer - Allows one additional Armor or Boot Modification to be installed
- New Trait - Demon Stalker, becomes available after 2 ranks in Hell Runner
- Demon Stalker - Further reduces all demons' ability to see you while Sneaking.  You can't be detected until within 4 squares at rank 1, 3 squares at rank 2 (max) and the recharge time on the Sneak tactic is reduced by 25 seconds per rank
- Son of a Gun renamed Double Tap and no longer gives old bonuses
- Double Tap causes you to randomly fire an extra shot (or 2) when equipped with a pistol (or 2), 33-66-100% chance per rank
- Shottyman renamed Run and Gun, now requires 2 ranks in Hell Runner
- Run and Gun allows reloading while moving for Pistols (only for your main hand pistol), both Shotguns, and the Plasma Rifle
- New Trait - Knife Fighter, available from game start
- Knife Fighter increases your evasion to melee attacks by 15% per rank (2 max)
- New Trait - Slice and Dice added, requires 2 ranks in Knife Fighter
- Slice and Dice allows you to attack with a Knife equipped in your prepared weapon slot if you're holding Knives in both hands
- Berserk now triggers as a 10% chance when you take damage (effect lowered to +2 armor +50% melee dmg)
- Brute lowered to +3 dmg and 2 ranks (as melee weapons minimum dmg has been improved, and the old Brute would make Slice and Dice WAY too powerful)

Items

- Small Health Globe healing reduced to 10%
- Large Health Globe spawn chance improved slightly
- Computer Maps can no longer spawn multiple times on one floor
- Supercharge, Invulnerability, and Megasphere can no longer spawn on the same floor, and may only spawn once
- Berserker packs may only spawn once per floor
- Berserker status now increases melee damage by 50% (not 100%) and armor by 2 (no more taking off armor!)
- Small Medpack healing reduced to 25%
- Large Medpack healing reduced to 50%
- Armor no longer reduces movement speed (we've got futuristic lightweight materials that conform to your shape :] )
- Armor Mod - Mobility removed
- Boot Mod - Protection removed
- Durability Mod for Armor / Boots removed
- New Armor / Boot Mod - Self Repairing Nanites - once installed Nanites repair an item over time by 1% per 5 steps
- New Armor Mod - Medical Augment - your armor is modified to automatically (and instantly) use a Large (if available) Medpack from your inventory after taking damage that lowers your health below 25%, and increases the duration of all Berserk effects by 100% (double) by regulating your adrenaline
- Armor Mod - Protection - Now Grants 2 Armor instead of 1 (to compensate for only 2 ranks in Tough as Nails)
- Boots no longer give resistance to being knocked around by default
- Boot Mod - Spiked Treads - Can no longer be knocked around by explosions
- Boot Mod - Mobility - Buffed to 20% speed bonus
- Weapon Mods - All Weapon Mods capped at 2 per type per weapon
- Weapon Accuracy Mod now adds 2 +accuracy and works with Shotgun type weapons to narrow the cone of fire for greater long range damage
- Weapon Magazine Mod now works with ALL standard ranged weapons, Rocket Launcher gains +1 rocket per mod (but loads rockets 1 at a time), Double Shotgun gains +1 shell per mod, but still loads only 2 shells per reload action
- Weapon Damage Mod now based on ammunition type - 10mm bullets cause +1 dmg, shells +3, plasma +2, rockets +4
- Weapon Firing Speed Mod now -20% firing time, stacking (not multiplying)
- Weapon Reload Mod removed
- New *Melee* Weapon Damage Mod - Adds +2 damage
- New *Melee* Weapon Attack Speed Mod - Reduces melee attack time by 20% (stacking, not multiplying)
- New *Melee* Weapon Dodge Mod - Increases chance to dodge (parry) melee attacks by 10%


I have well thought out reasoning behind all of these changes, but I'll save it until someone asks for it as this post is long enough already :]  The short version is: with every Item Mod and Trait (nearly) equally desirable, and more viable build options in Standard and Challenge mode play (for example, Chainsaw vs. 2 Knife), replay value and fun of the game will be extended and enhanced.  By removing uniques from the Standard and Challenge game modes it is easier to balance monsters and normal / advanced weapons for a more consistent experience overall without having to consider the odds of a player getting their hands on an incredibly powerful (yet random) piece of equipment and most of the remaining challenge being removed from that point on.  It also isn't fun trying to plot a character build around an item you might never actually see.  By shifting this power into Advanced Weapons and their Mods the growth in player power can be  measured more closely, and corresponding difficulty adjustments can be made more easily to keep the game consistently challenging to the end.  By leaving the "banned"  items in the Ao100 mode they remain a large part of what is the "main" game mode for many players while making Standard and Challenge modes more balanced experiences.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 12:29 by LoneVandal »
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rekenne

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 12:17 »

I knida want to do a piece by piece deconstruction on why I think a lot of this is a bad set of ideas, but I'll just cover this:

In addition to exiting effects, Akimbo Master now causes you to reload both pistols simultaneously, but increases reload time by 50% (effectively lowers reload time by removing the need to swap weapons with z, reduces individual reload times by 25%, stacks with Reloader for an effective -75% reload time on 2 Pistols)

You can already reload both pistols simultaneoulsy. Use 'R'.

(Though, I do think a greater chance of mods and mods being useful (Advanced weapons) would be nice)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 12:21 by rekenne »
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LoneVandal

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 12:25 »

I knida want to do a piece by piece deconstruction on why I think a lot of this is a bad set of ideas, but I'll just cover this:

In addition to exiting effects, Akimbo Master now causes you to reload both pistols simultaneously, but increases reload time by 50% (effectively lowers reload time by removing the need to swap weapons with z, reduces individual reload times by 25%, stacks with Reloader for an effective -75% reload time on 2 Pistols)

You can already reload both pistols simultaneoulsy. Use 'R'.

(Though, I do think a greater chance of mods and mods being useful (Advanced weapons) would be nice)


Where does the game tell you that you can reload both weapons at once with alt-reload??? Yeesh.  Even the Wiki doesn't mention that anywhere.
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rekenne

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 13:28 »

Huh. You might actually be right about that.
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Kao

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 14:40 »

Where does the game tell you that you can reload both weapons at once with alt-reload??? Yeesh.  Even the Wiki doesn't mention that anywhere.

Try pressing shift + r with two pistols equipped and the dualgunner trait. Works for me at least although my version of Doom RL got kinda weird. As in I start on HNTR with 100 hp and Ironman seems to not work. Don't ask me why, although it might have something to do with vista.
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Thexare

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 20:48 »

"- Unique Items, Thermonuclear Bombs, and Homing Phase Devices taken out of the Standard and Challenge game modes, you can now find them only in the Ao 100 floor mode.  Both modes have been balanced to account for this change and should have a unique feel while played."

How'd you "balance" for only being able to phase into and out of the center room in the Vaults level? The bulk of the level is inside the vault rooms, meaning that a normal Phase Device is likely to take you right back into a Vault - run out in the middle and, without an HPD, you're screwed. You can't blast your way out of or into the middle.
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Blade

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2009, 08:56 »

Where does the game tell you that you can reload both weapons at once with alt-reload??? Yeesh.  Even the Wiki doesn't mention that anywhere.

Quote from official manual:
Quote
Ok, I hear you cry -- "Out of ammo!" Don't panic. Press "r" to reload your
weapon. (Some weapons allow you to do a "special" reload by pressing "R".)
Reloading is automatic if you have the proper ammo in your inventory. But
what if you don't? You can try pounding on the enemy with your fists or a
hand-to-hand weapon -- to do that just walk into him.  Pick up a Berserk
pack or/and a chainsaw (or at least a knife) and you can do some
serious damage that way!

It's from 'getting started' manual. It describes that such feature exists and that you can use it. It must not list all actions that happens when you press 'R' with various weapons (almost every weapon has different action binded on that key, especially unique) - it's up to you to find to find them by trying and testing. This game is a roguelike, after all.

You ask, why it's not in the Wiki? DooMRL Wiki is maintained by players of this game, such as you and me, so if you think that special reload of all weapons should be mentioned there - add it. Anyway, i already added it.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 10:22 by Blade »
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LoneVandal

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2009, 10:12 »

"- Unique Items, Thermonuclear Bombs, and Homing Phase Devices taken out of the Standard and Challenge game modes, you can now find them only in the Ao 100 floor mode.  Both modes have been balanced to account for this change and should have a unique feel while played."

How'd you "balance" for only being able to phase into and out of the center room in the Vaults level? The bulk of the level is inside the vault rooms, meaning that a normal Phase Device is likely to take you right back into a Vault - run out in the middle and, without an HPD, you're screwed. You can't blast your way out of or into the middle.

Well, some changes would have to be made to special levels.  The inadvertent point of separating Ao100 and standard / challenge modes is actually to make the latter 2 modes present less randomized gameplay, which in turn emphasizes player build decisions, weapon selection, and overall skill rather than whether you found the Missile Launcher unique weapon early on or not.  Or as in your example, whether they found the specific items necessary to actually get all the items in The Vault (even having 3 Phase Devices and a Homing would not guarantee you'd actually accomplish this, though).  Some special levels would need to be revamped a bit (or just removed from Standard / Challenge) to compensate for this.  The Cathedral, for example would not really serve a purpose since you couldn't get the Spear of Longinus in these modes any more.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 10:31 by LoneVandal »
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LoneVandal

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2009, 10:29 »

It's from 'getting started' manual. It describes that such feature exists and that you can use it. It must not list all actions that happens when you press 'R' with various weapons (almost every weapon has different action binded on that key, especially unique) - it's up to you to find to find them by trying and testing. This game it a roguelike, after all.

Yes I read the manual, I know what it says, and it in no way indicates that "R" will let you reload 2 weapons at the same time.  Any game involves experimentation and learning, but the things a player should be expected to learn are how to overcome obstacles presented by the game, not how to control their own character effectively.  For example, learning to use corners and doors effectively, learning which audio cues give away which monster types, learning which character builds are effective (and which ones aren't), learning it is never worth it to pull a switch without Intuition, and learning that non-unique shotguns are currently worthless are all fair things to expect of a player.  Character controls don't fall into this category, they fall into the "things about a game that should be properly documented" category.

Quote
You ask, why it's not in the Wiki? DooMRL Wiki is maintained by players of this game, such as you and me, so if you think that special reload of all weapons should be mentioned there - add it. Anyway, i already added it.

Well I didn't actually ask why it wasn't in the wiki, I just stated that it wasn't.  It isn't a knock against the wiki or the players contributing to it either, it is me expressing my disbelief that such an important piece of information was completely undocumented.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 10:49 by LoneVandal »
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Blade

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 11:46 »

Yes I read the manual, I know what it says, and it in no way indicates that "R" will let you reload 2 weapons at the same time.  Any game involves experimentation and learning, but the things a player should be expected to learn are how to overcome obstacles presented by the game, not how to control their own character effectively.  For example, learning to use corners and doors effectively, learning which audio cues give away which monster types, learning which character builds are effective (and which ones aren't), learning it is never worth it to pull a switch without Intuition, and learning that non-unique shotguns are currently worthless are all fair things to expect of a player.  Character controls don't fall into this category, they fall into the "things about a game that should be properly documented" category.

Well, the only right thing i can think of is to add explanation of this feature to the Dualgunner trait description.
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Kao

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 12:35 »

Well, the only right thing i can think of is to add explanation of this feature to the Dualgunner trait description.

Dualgunner

Requires: Son of a Gun(2)

Max. Ranks: 1

Effect: Allows 2 pistols to be fired at once (you must have the second in your prepared slot), at 120% of the normal firing time. Allows to reload weapons in both hands at once by pressing 'Special Reload' key.

Quote from Doom RL wiki
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LoneVandal

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2009, 12:42 »

Well, the only right thing i can think of is to add explanation of this feature to the Dualgunner trait description.

Sounds like a good idea to me.
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Blade

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2009, 12:50 »

LoneVandal, you can, you know... use 1 post for 2 different messages.
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LoneVandal

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2009, 14:12 »

Lets get back on topic, if we could.  I'm really glad the whole dual-reload thing is a part of the game already.  Moving on!

I guess I could make most of the weapon balance changes myself by modding LUA files once the mod-able version of DooMRL is released?  What about things like being able to control weapon behavior, such as allowing the DB Shotgun to be modded for more shells?
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raekuul

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Re: My Dream Patch Notes v1.0
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2009, 15:41 »

Okay, quick question: Have you tried to do this by modifying the memory in-game? A large amount of these changes would need a heavy rewrite of the game itself instead of a moderately-moderately intensive modification.

For example: Shotgun data in memory is limited to current and max magazine, accuracy (yes, it has an address in memory, but I haven't seen a value of 99Dec do anything here), damage, projectile type (only three - standard spread, wide 'n' shallow, deep 'n' narrow), splash range (again, it has an address in memory, but it has no application here), and number of shots.

It's possible that there will be a way to make the modifications you want once 1.0 comes out, but as things stand, these modifications are going to be hard to implement and a helluva lot of work.
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