DRL > Requests For Features

Trait changes (son of a gun, shottyman, shotgun traits)

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Captain Trek:

--- Quote from: Hipster Scumbag on June 24, 2009, 11:27 ---1) Finesse/Whizkid are quite underpowered, but this could become less of a problem if mods become more streamlined, versatile, and general-purpose.  I'd rather let Son of a Gun keep its damage bonus because lord knows even with SoaG 3 and a little SoaB it's still pretty hard putting down anything north of Hell Knight.  Although I would admit I'd like Marksman to play more like a "finesse" game than a gimped chaingunner, which I can see you're going for with the finesse/reloader thing, so it bears some thought & tweaking.

--- End quote ---

Well I would argue that with the right tools (I.E. Lots of mods and whizkid or a unique), if anything a pistol build is more powerful than the equivalent chaingunner... For example, in my last AoMarks game, I had Revenants that were consistantly going down in two volleys from my pistols... Meanwhile, the chances of your chaingun is taking down a Revenant in a single volley are slim to none at best... Two volleys no doubt, but that's 14 bullets (assuming two levels of triggerhappy) down the gurgler as opposed to just four for my Angel of Marksmanship... Not to mention that the pistol build character doesn't have to worry about juggling 9mm and power cell ammo as the chaingunner will probably have to...

"...it's still pretty hard putting down anything north of Hell Knight"... I'm sorry, what? First of all, I'm pretty sure a Revenant counts as being "north of a Hell Knight", second, in my last AoMarks game (which I won), Barons were going down in 4-5 volleys, Aracnotrons didn't take more than 4 (and my character was firing so fast they were frequently unable to return fire) and, as I said, Revenants were going down in two... I can't really speak for mancubi (since I didn't encounter many) or Viles (since I didn't encounter any, this being a decidedly average HNTR run), but the former didn't seem to take more than 4 volleys (total of eight bullets) either...

Yea, sorry about that, I just think it needed to be said...

Zi:

--- Quote from: Dervis on July 03, 2009, 06:19 ---For traits to be fun there are 2 things that must happen:
 1 - The traits must give you a noticeable advantage for taking it.
 2 - You must be able to make options. In other words there should be several traits that improve your game-style and you shouldn't be forced to take trait A because it's so much better than all the rest.
--- End quote ---
I totally agree with this in principle.

(But if Son of a Gun didn't have the damage bonus, pistols would be really hard to play.  And I never get enough mods to make whizkid worthwhile, or a good substitute for son of a bitch)

The thing is, even if you change the traits so that they don't only provide benefits to specific weapons, one thing the current system encourages is to max out the levels of a single trait before moving on to others.  I'd rather have 3 levels of your new Reloader, or 3 Son of a Bitch, or 3 Tough as Nails, over having one level of each.  Because additional levels reinforce and focus the benefit you receive.  Try to be a killing machine.  Or a tank.  Or a sniper.  But trying to be a bit of each doesn't work as well.

One way I thought of dealing with this was to only allow X level traits once the player has reached character level 2 * X (for example), then they would have to mix up the trait order choice, but if implemented into the current game, early game characters would be even more weak and fragile than they are now.  One way around this is to actually strengthen the value of level 1 traits, or you could ease up on the danger level early on.

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