DRL > Requests For Features

Trait changes (son of a gun, shottyman, shotgun traits)

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raekuul:
I'm not exaggerating, it would require a recode if we want to add more weapon classes to the weapon-specific traits. I've mucked around in the game memory while playing. I've made the Bee-Bee Gun (Sixteen-shot shotgun best used against unarmored foes) and the Golden Gun (One shot kill, poor reload time and no magazine to speak of). I've made knives that deal a hundred damage when they hit. I've seen how the traits work.

The traits rely on the weapon class. I cannot change the weapon class without crashing the game. Therefore, I believe that changing the Weapon-Specific Traits so that they effect all weapon classes would be too much of a hassle in the recoding department.

Frankosity:

--- Quote from: Hipster Scumbag on June 24, 2009, 11:27 ---1) Finesse/Whizkid are quite underpowered, but this could become less of a problem if mods become more streamlined, versatile, and general-purpose.  I'd rather let Son of a Gun keep its damage bonus because lord knows even with SoaG 3 and a little SoaB it's still pretty hard putting down anything north of Hell Knight.  Although I would admit I'd like Marksman to play more like a "finesse" game than a gimped chaingunner, which I can see you're going for with the finesse/reloader thing, so it bears some thought & tweaking.

--- End quote ---

I definitely agree that the game would benefit from trait streamlining. You could have specialist traits for each weapon "type"- pistols, shotguns, melee, and rapid-fire, and two generalist traits for survivability and speed.

From there, you could have a trait tree of sorts-secondary traits allowing you to develop your character more specifically, but with more varied requirements than the current system. Like a secondary trait which requires a level in both the toughness and speed traits which doubles the duration you can run for, for example. If you wanted to get even more complex, you could then institute tertiary traits, which can require primary, secondary, or both.

Vestin:

--- Quote from: Frankosity on July 03, 2009, 03:24 ---I definitely agree that the game would benefit from trait streamlining. You could have specialist traits for each weapon "type"- pistols, shotguns, melee, and rapid-fire, and two generalist traits for survivability and speed.

From there, you could have a trait tree of sorts-secondary traits allowing you to develop your character more specifically, but with more varied requirements than the current system. Like a secondary trait which requires a level in both the toughness and speed traits which doubles the duration you can run for, for example. If you wanted to get even more complex, you could then institute tertiary traits, which can require primary, secondary, or both.

--- End quote ---
I think traits should neither be too specialized nor too broadly beneficial. IMO - every trait should give you bonuses to two different types of weapons, so that you would want them to overlap in order to get proficient with using a particular kind.
To put it simpler: trait X gives bonuses to weapons A and B, while trait Y is suited for B and C and trait Z helps using C and D. Therefore - if you wish to focus on B, you take either X or Y first (which gives you the option to change your mind down the road and change focus to A or C respectfuly) and then the other one (Y or X). This gives you 2 traits worth of weapon B upgrades, while also 1 level upgrades for A and C...

Dervis:
For traits to be fun there are 2 things that must happen:
 1 - The traits must give you a noticeable advantage for taking it.
 2 - You must be able to make options. In other words there should be several traits that improve your game-style and you shouldn't be forced to take trait A because it's so much better than all the rest.

In my opinion the basic traits in DoomRL are so specialized (so much better for determined game styles) that you feel 'forced' to take them in a certain order. According to regular strategies:
- Chaingunner - EE, SoaB, SoaB, TH, TH
- Marksman - SoG, SoG, DG, SoG, EE
- Shottyman - Shottyman (if you want this you have to take Reloader 2)
- Melee - B, B, Ber

So you don't really get to choose anything until you reach level 4-5. You should be able to want to play with alternatives and not be monstrously penalized.
My 2nd comment is that shotgun and melee builds have too few traits to choose from.
In my opinion all the basic traits should be more generalistic and offer small benefits to every game-style. Then you could let the advanced traits be really specialized.

Frankosity:

--- Quote from: Dervis on July 03, 2009, 06:19 ---For traits to be fun there are 2 things that must happen:
 1 - The traits must give you a noticeable advantage for taking it.
 2 - You must be able to make options. In other words there should be several traits that improve your game-style and you shouldn't be forced to take trait A because it's so much better than all the rest.

In my opinion the basic traits in DoomRL are so specialized (so much better for determined game styles) that you feel 'forced' to take them in a certain order. According to regular strategies:
- Chaingunner - EE, SoaB, SoaB, TH, TH
- Marksman - SoG, SoG, DG, SoG, EE
- Shottyman - Shottyman (if you want this you have to take Reloader 2)
- Melee - B, B, Ber

So you don't really get to choose anything until you reach level 4-5. You should be able to want to play with alternatives and not be monstrously penalized.
My 2nd comment is that shotgun and melee builds have too few traits to choose from.
In my opinion all the basic traits should be more generalistic and offer small benefits to every game-style. Then you could let the advanced traits be really specialized.

--- End quote ---

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Certain trait builds are almost obectively superior, especially the Chaingunner build (although this is mostly due to the nature of rapidfire weapons, and how traits like SoaB combined with EE can make them absolutely broken) and there seem to be a few traits which aren't particularly handy by themselves, like Reloader.

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