DRL > Requests For Features
Purpose of Unlockables
ChaoticJosh:
Now, I'm pretty new around here, and so my opinion of this game isn't as full as most of the vets around here, but even with my inexperience, I have to ask, what's the purpose of all these unlockables?
What I mean is, when you first start the game, all the challenges and the upper tiers of difficulty are locked until the player completes some arbitrary goals beforehand. These goals are both difficult and time consuming and I see no reason this feature in the first place.
Yes, I know these can be construed as rewards for playing the game well, but I'm of the philosophy that games shouldn't limit the player on what type of fun they want to have, that it's the game's job to provide the fun, and nothing else.
Now, I'm not bashing the 'rank' system entirely, I think it's very nice. It gives a little title to the players to make them feel good, and neatly falls into what I'd call a 'bragging rights reward'. It's aesthetic, it doesn't serve a practical purpose, but gives the player a reward for their hard work.
It's just that I don't think a player's rank should prohibit him from playing the game the way he wants to play.
Now, DoomRL is a roguelike, a genre I'm familiar with. Now, I'm of the opinion that a problem that a lot of roguelikes share is accessibility. New people have a hard time picking them up for any number of reasons. If someone that had never played a roguelike before were to download this game, and saw that most of it's challenges and difficulty were locked, and then upon doing more research (assuming he had the patience) to see what it takes to unlock them, and then found that he would have to do any number of difficult and time-consuming things, there is the very real possibility of him being turned off from the game, and just refusing to play it.
I really like DoomRL, and while I'm sure Mr. Kornel put thought into the system he's made, I think it would be for the best if the game gave all it's features to the player on startup, rather than expecting him to work for them.
MaiZure:
--- Quote from: ChaoticJosh on September 22, 2009, 05:35 ---What I mean is, when you first start the game, all the challenges and the upper tiers of difficulty are locked until the player completes some arbitrary goals beforehand. These goals are both difficult and time consuming and I see no reason this feature in the first place.
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't worry about this much longer - the rank system in the next release has been completely redone and most people will find it less tedious and much more flexible when it comes to unlocking challenge modes
Vestin:
--- Quote from: ChaoticJosh on September 22, 2009, 05:35 ---If someone that had never played a roguelike before were to download this game, and saw that most of it's challenges and difficulty were locked, and then upon doing more research (assuming he had the patience) to see what it takes to unlock them, and then found that he would have to do any number of difficult and time-consuming things, there is the very real possibility of him being turned off from the game, and just refusing to play it.
--- End quote ---
They all are more difficult than the normal game and almost all of them are simply limiting the player in what he can do. I know that everything might have been available from the start but I highly doubt there would be a lot of people out there who wish to play Angel of Berserk on Nightmare as the first thing in this game ;).
Rabiat:
In my opinion, skill ranks and unlockables are the greatest thing that ever happened to DoomRL. DoomRL games are both very short and very winnable, compared to traditional roguelikes. Winning a single DoomRL game, even on N!, is a relatively simple challenge compared to ascending in NetHack, for example. So for DoomRL it makes sense to have some challenges of increasing dificulty spanning multiple games.
The downside to rank requirements is that a player might get stuck on a single requirement, while otherwise meeting all requirements to progress, or even skip the next rank. The upside is that the requirements set specific goals, which give players a sense of accomplishment when they're met. Also, watching doomguy get killed isn't as big a deal as the death of your character in ADOM, or Crawl.
I don't think the requirements for unlockables are arbitrary, but I can see your point that gameplay shouldn't be restricted unnecessarily. The only response I can come up with is that it isn't gameplay that's restricted, it's the difficulty of gameplay and the challenge modes. I've yet to see the first DoomRL noob owning the game in UV on their first run. Well, except for Blade, but he's like the Stig of Shotgun.
Personally, I like the inaccessible nature of RLs in general, and I expect them to raise impossible challenges. DoomRL is exceptional in that it draws out the impossible challenge over lots of short games, instead of a really long one.
ChaoticJosh:
--- Quote from: Rabiat on September 22, 2009, 07:29 ---In my opinion, skill ranks and unlockables are the greatest thing that ever happened to DoomRL. DoomRL games are both very short and very winnable, compared to traditional roguelikes. Winning a single DoomRL game, even on N!, is a relatively simple challenge compared to ascending in NetHack, for example. So for DoomRL it makes sense to have some challenges of increasing dificulty spanning multiple games.
The downside to rank requirements is that a player might get stuck on a single requirement, while otherwise meeting all requirements to progress, or even skip the next rank. The upside is that the requirements set specific goals, which give players a sense of accomplishment when they're met. Also, watching doomguy get killed isn't as big a deal as the death of your character in ADOM, or Crawl.
I don't think the requirements for unlockables are arbitrary, but I can see your point that gameplay shouldn't be restricted unnecessarily. The only response I can come up with is that it isn't gameplay that's restricted, it's the difficulty of gameplay and the challenge modes. I've yet to see the first DoomRL noob owning the game in UV on their first run. Well, except for Blade, but he's like the Stig of Shotgun.
Personally, I like the inaccessible nature of RLs in general, and I expect them to raise impossible challenges. DoomRL is exceptional in that it draws out the impossible challenge over lots of short games, instead of a really long one.
--- End quote ---
I don't mean to be confrontational, but it all seems to me is excuse-making.
Comparing DoomRL to Nethack is a pretty hard sell, you don't have to unlock anything in Nethack, you just start and everything is there. All of the extra difficulty is built in as well, in the form of the conduct system, which tracks how you're purposefully limiting yourself.
You say that newer players wouldn't be interested in the extra-hard challenges, but you're not being very considerate to the player that would like to play on a public computer, has had their data wiped because of computer problems, or if it was accidentally deleted by a meddlesome sibling. An experienced player starting up the program would have to jump through all the hoops just to get at what they want, which I feel is counter-productive in terms of what a game is supposed to be: fun for the player.
Also, there's a difference between something being inaccessible, and something being challenging. Going back to the Nethack analogy, Nethack is challenging because everything is trying to kill you, and simple mistakes can spell doom, however, it's inaccessible because you have to literally learn what each key on the keyboard does, and THEN some extra spelt out commands, which is a daunting task.
It's the difference between making the game challenging, and making playing the game challenging, if that makes sense.
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