DRL > Requests For Features

Purpose of Unlockables

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Passionario:
In 0.9.9, all challenges and difficulty modes are unlocked much earlier than in the current version.

MaiZure:

--- Quote from: Passionario on September 22, 2009, 08:15 ---In 0.9.9, all challenges and difficulty modes are unlocked much earlier than in the current version.

--- End quote ---

And even in the public version, an experienced player could unlock all of the challenge modes in less than 5 games...*cough* Dervis *cough* Thomas

ChaoticJosh:

--- Quote from: Passionario on September 22, 2009, 08:15 ---In 0.9.9, all challenges and difficulty modes are unlocked much earlier than in the current version.

--- End quote ---

Now, I see that. It's something of a cold comfort though, since it doesn't answer my main question: What is the purpose of having unlockables?

MaiZure:

--- Quote from: ChaoticJosh on September 22, 2009, 08:19 ---Now, I see that. It's something of a cold comfort though, since it doesn't answer my main question: What is the purpose of having unlockables?

--- End quote ---

To keep completionists coming back over and over and over.....
...and believe it or not, it works!

Rabiat:

--- Quote from: ChaoticJosh on September 22, 2009, 08:03 ---I don't mean to be confrontational, but it all seems to me is excuse-making.
--- End quote ---
* Rabiat fires.
* You barely avoid the blast.

That's okay. ;)


--- Quote ---Comparing DoomRL to Nethack is a pretty hard sell, you don't have to unlock anything in Nethack, you just start and everything is there. All of the extra difficulty is built in as well, in the form of the conduct system, which tracks how you're purposefully limiting yourself.
--- End quote ---
NetHack is just an example of a traditional RL. I meant to compare DoomRL, which has relatively short games, to traditional RLs, which have much longer games. In traditional RLs, long term goals are provided within a single run. A single DoomRL game is too short for that. So, I think DoomRL does a good job at offering some alternative long term goals, even if it's across games.

Of course, having long term or cross-game goals doesn't necessarily mean having to unlock higher difficulties or challenges. That's where you're right. On the other hand, I can't think of any meaningful long term goals besides unlockable difficulties and challenges. I remember playing DoomRL before it had unlockables, and I always felt games were too short and pointless. The skill rank system remedied that.


--- Quote ---You say that newer players wouldn't be interested in the extra-hard challenges,(...)
--- End quote ---
I'm not saying newer players wouldn't be interested in extra-hard challenges, I'm saying they wouldn't be able to complete them without sufficient practice. But don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything against unlocking UV or N! right from the start. I just happen to like the fact that they're not.


--- Quote ---(...) but you're not being very considerate to the player that would like to play on a public computer, has had their data wiped because of computer problems, or if it was accidentally deleted by a meddlesome sibling. An experienced player starting up the program would have to jump through all the hoops just to get at what they want, which I feel is counter-productive in terms of what a game is supposed to be: fun for the player.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you in the case of experienced players not being able to use their player.dat file, but that's a logistics problem, not a DoomRL problem. Kornel tries his best to preserve player.dat compatibility between versions, and there's little more he can do. Well, except providing cloud storage for .dat files. ;)


--- Quote ---Also, there's a difference between something being inaccessible, and something being challenging. Going back to the Nethack analogy, Nethack is challenging because everything is trying to kill you, and simple mistakes can spell doom, however, it's inaccessible because you have to literally learn what each key on the keyboard does, and THEN some extra spelt out commands, which is a daunting task.

It's the difference between making the game challenging, and making playing the game challenging, if that makes sense.
--- End quote ---
I didn't mean to compare NetHack and DoomRL gameplay-wise, my point was about duration and how limited duration imposes limitations on complexity and long term goals. When it comes to gameplay, I think NetHack is unnecessarily complex to control, not very much fun to play, thematically crippled, and hideously unbalanced. DoomRL on the contrary was designed with admirable restraint in that regard.

Nevertheless, I agree that it's better to make something impossibly difficult than strictly inaccessible. It's just that there's little room for that in a game as short as DoomRL.

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