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Author Topic: Purpose of Unlockables  (Read 18719 times)

ChaoticJosh

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2009, 21:32 »

Well, it would seem that we have an irreconcilable differences, as it would appear that you're all pretty adamant on the "Unlockables Features as a reward" stance. Let me just say this however:

Unlocking things and improving one's profile is a huge draw for many people.  It's one of the main reasons kongregate has been successful, compared to other flash gaming sites that don't have challenges or medals.  It's one of the reasons for goldeneye's huge popularity back on the nintendo64.  Going back even further, it's comparable to completing challenges in order to unlock characters in fighting games- in tekken for example, every character has a sub-boss character they must fight before the last boss.  Those subbosses are all unlockable by winning the game with the character that fights them, and then the last boss by winning with all of the subbosses.

The idea, I guess, is that it's that process that is the draw.  This is why some modern games have absurd numbers of unlockables.  Smash brothers brawl is an example of a game that does this well.  There is an insane amount of unlockable content, but there are multiple ways to unlock the most important content, (the extra characters) and much of the content would be meaningless to people that don't care about being a completionist (stickers, medals).

In my case, I haven't played doomrl in a few months now because I've been eagerly anticipating the new release, and don't want to waste my time on my old profile that won't be transferred.  ;) 

This may just be me, but I don't think it's acceptable that a game do something just because other games, on different systems, targetted at different audiences, and are different genres altogether did them, and were aggravating even then. I know I would have enjoyed the games you listed much more if there were no unlockables.

Comparing DoomRL to Nethack is a pretty hard sell, you don't have to unlock anything in Nethack, you just start and everything is there.
No it isn't. I played a lot of it, and still didn't manage to "unlock" access to Gehenna. Moreover, it's a stupid kind of access, because I need to do all the needed dungeon level challenges again each time I die or ascend, instead of just hopping into Gehenna game.

I'm glad to hear that you've played Nethack as well. I've beaten it 3 times now, but let's not get sidetracked by superfluous analogies.

I hate to be rude Mr. Kornel, but I must say that that is an absurd assertion. Things which are part of the game, are fair challenges, and are by no means arbitrary don't seem to me to be what I'm talking about. That would be like me saying "How come I have to unlock access to Hell's Armory in DoomRL? Why can't I just start and be in there already? Every time I die, I have to play the game and complete it's challenges to get there!".

I don't wish to argue with you on needless points Mr. Kornel, as it would appear that you want to design your game in your own way. I can respect that, and if you have no intention of listening to me, then just say so and I will be gone.
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Vestin

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2009, 22:55 »

This may just be me, but I don't think it's acceptable that a game do something just because other games, on different systems, targetted at different audiences, and are different genres altogether did them, and were aggravating even then. I know I would have enjoyed the games you listed much more if there were no unlockables.
It was not stated as a cause - it was simply an example of how unlockables make games more fun for lots of people.

Things which are part of the game, are fair challenges, and are by no means arbitrary don't seem to me to be what I'm talking about. That would be like me saying "How come I have to unlock access to Hell's Armory in DoomRL? Why can't I just start and be in there already? Every time I die, I have to play the game and complete it's challenges to get there!".
You have to think a little broader than that. Let me spell it out for you: things get more difficult when you are ready to face them.
Prove me wrong. Post a YAVP on hard or something similarly impressing...

I don't wish to argue with you on needless points Mr. Kornel, as it would appear that you want to design your game in your own way.
How audacious of him, isn't it ;) ?

I can respect that, and if you have no intention of listening to me, then just say so and I will be gone.
We are all listening to you, we simply don't think you are right. Show us why it would be better to abandon all unlockability, other than the fact that a single person would be happy.
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Passionario

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 01:20 »

Passionario's eyes twinkle with merriment.

So, which one did you get stuck on? Berserk? Impatience? Purity?
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MaiZure

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 05:38 »

Passionario's eyes twinkle with merriment.

So, which one did you get stuck on? Berserk? Impatience? Purity?

It's gotta be Pacifism...how ironic!
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Brewtal Legend

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2009, 09:53 »

I think it would be cool to make certain special weapons/items only available after a certain rank is unlocked. Or even a new level after the regular final level. That might add extra incentive to unlock everything. I still like gaining ranks and such though. It adds a sense of accomplishment, even though I hardly have the time needed to gain higher ranks most the time.
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UnderAPaleGreySky

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2009, 10:16 »

I think it would be cool to make certain special weapons/items only available after a certain rank is unlocked. Or even a new level after the regular final level.
Are you referring to the Cyberdemon level or the JC level? 'Cos I don't count surviving a nuke to get to a level as being "regular".
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Aki

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2009, 15:00 »

I disagree. I don't want to have to have a Diamond badge before I can see a Jackhammer O_o
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Madtrixr

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2009, 17:06 »

I disagree. I don't want to have to have a Diamond badge before I can see a Jackhammer O_o

Agreed. I want to get a weapon when I find it. I want to be able to find the Railgun, not earn 3 Plats for it.
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UnderAPaleGreySky

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2009, 06:47 »

I found the Railgun once. Mad fun.
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Madtrixr

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2009, 08:19 »

Yeah, see? Railgun=Fun
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Vestin

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2009, 11:05 »

Yeah, see? Railgun=Fun
To be honest: Fun(Railgun).
They are not the same thing, you know.
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Jimmy

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2009, 11:32 »

chaoticjosh- the fact that the games I mentioned are of some very different genres shows how deriving enjoyment from unlockables is not something bound to any single genre of games.  I can't think of a single genre that doesn't have examples of games with unlockable content, actually, from sports games to rpgs to sound novels.  It looks like you simply don't personally like unlockables, but it can't be contested that they are very popular.  Ultimately it's just kornel's choice, but I daresay that he would likely upset many more people than he would please if he eliminated unlockables.  It would be different perhaps if he had never decided to include them in the first place, but at this point, they're one of the features that make DoomRL stand out compared to other computer roguelikes.  (unlockables aren't unknown in roguelikes incidentally- I know that at least the chocobo's dungeon and fuurai no shiren series have them on consoles)
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Madtrixr

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2009, 12:32 »

To be honest: Fun(Railgun).
They are not the same thing, you know.

Ah, of course. Thank you for correcting me. :D
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Aki

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2009, 16:52 »

Railgun is only fun if they line up in a nice little row for you.

I didn't read Jimmy's post. Could someone put it in English for me?
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UnderAPaleGreySky

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Re: Purpose of Unlockables
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2009, 18:00 »

Railgun is only fun if they line up in a nice little row for you.
Which is why we are eternally grateful for corridors.

I didn't read Jimmy's post. Could someone put it in English for me?
I'm not gonna try...
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