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[ZZ]

In Doom we have maximum
10mm Ammo: 200;
12g shells: 50;
Rockets: 50;
Plasma cells: 300;

In DoomRL we transformed this into:
10mm Ammo 100;
12g shells: 50;
Rockets: 10;
Cells: 50;
per stack.
Are we sure this is right transformation?

I think better would be such thing:
10mm Ammo: 100;
12g shells: 25(this will add more problems, but shottymnans really feed doomguy well);
Rockets: 10 (nobody really uses them as main weapon);
Plasma cells: 150;
The half of Doom maximum.

[Frankosity]

Personally, I know how unpopular this would probably be, but I'd prefer it if DoomRL just used the ammo reserves used in Doom rather than having ammo occupying inventory slots. The main problem with that is that it'd force players to use variation in their weapons in a game where you practically have to railroad yourself into specialism.

[Madtrixr]

Personally, I know how unpopular this would probably be, but I'd prefer it if DoomRL just used the ammo reserves used in Doom rather than having ammo occupying inventory slots. The main problem with that is that it'd force players to use variation in their weapons in a game where you practically have to railroad yourself into specialism.

Don't forget that Inventory Management is a feature of Roguelikes. You have to think: "Should I drop a small medkit in order to start stocking up on plasma?" or "Shotgun shells? or 10mm?"

[Frankosity]

On the other hand, it's a roguelike feature which bogs the game down and draws away from the focus of the game, which is fast-paced action. If you had an ammo reserve then you could potentially cut the player inventory down to 5-10 slots, so you'd still be making decisions in terms of carrying health items vs. tertiary items like enviropacks, phase devices etc. Personally, I tend to find I never pick up stuff like phase devices, because I'm too concerned about running out of ammunition.

[Malek Deneith]

IMHO ammunition stacks and their management are all fine as they are now.

[Ruldra]

@Frankosity: if ammo management is removed from the game you'd have inventories with like, 6 suits of armor and 14 medpacks? That makes the game far too easy. Ammo management is fine as it is.

At first you tend to stock up on ammo but with time you have an idea of how much you really need, and then you find enough space to carry stuff like envirosuits and phase devices (usually I carry one enviro and 2 phases).

[Thomas]

Frankosity raises a good point, but the game (as he also said) is now too accustomed to the idea that you should only be using 1-3 weapons as your "mains".

I think if/when DoomRL 2 is made, ammo reserves would be an excellent idea (Kornel could just make the inventory smaller or the game harder), but as of right now it'd be too hard to rebalance everything.

As of changes we can make right now, I have two ideas:
Make shotguns shells stack slightly less and rockets stack slightly more.
Make the first stack of any type of ammo stack three times as high. This makes a more varied weapon usage very favourable, and only slightly helps people that are dedicatedly using a single weapon.

In addition to my second idea, we could make ammo rarer so that if you're only picking up one type, you'll run out. This forces players to use 2-4 weapons instead of 1-3.

Of course, this is all under the assumption that having more main weapons makes for a more fun game, but I agree with Frankosity on that.

[Frankosity]

@Frankosity: if ammo management is removed from the game you'd have inventories with like, 6 suits of armor and 14 medpacks? That makes the game far too easy. Ammo management is fine as it is.

If you had an ammo reserve then you could potentially cut the player inventory down to 5-10 slots, so you'd still be making decisions in terms of carrying health items vs. tertiary items like enviropacks, phase devices etc.

Another victory for reading comprehension!

@Thomas: Yeah, I never assumed it was even a mildly feasible idea considering the current balance of DoomRL, and for DoomRL 2 it'd require making what would basically be a completely different game in terms of balance, as the traits would have to be far more generalist, rather than the extreme specialism in the current game.

[Ruldra]

Whoops!

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Not only will DoomRL 2 not have ammo reserve, it will also feature different ammo types ;>

[Thomas]

Not only will DoomRL 2 not have ammo reserve, it will also feature different ammo types ;>

Gah! You're straying too far from the source material, Kornel! You're a loose cannon!

Well, as long as it's only 1 or 2 more...

[Fanta Hege]

You're a loose cannon!

But you are a damn good cop!


More ammo type isn't that bad if there are more different weapons to go with it.. And hopefully more inventory space.

[Sylph]

It's easy to say 'instead of having 20 slots, with 10 of them being ammo, let's just have 10 slots and 'free' ammo (up to a max of xxx/xxx/xx/xxx).....

This idea absolutely misses the point behind ammo taking inventory space - it allows a player to be dynamic to a given challenge/difficulty situation - Do I take more ammo this game, risking fewer phase devices and medikits because my build is a long-ranged specialist, or do fill up on health and armour, risking taking along less ammo because I'll not need as much, and have a better chance of picking it up when I get so close?

The *choice* is an integral part of DoomRL strategy, and taking options away from the player just to... err... Well, I don't really know *why* people are even suggesting this... Hang on...
How is the current system somehow 'bogging the game down' - it doesn't take anything away from the fast paced action, does it? Is someone seriously going to put an argument together for splitting the inventory/encumberance system in 2 being somehow 'simpler', 'faster' or 'more beleivable' ?

[Frankosity]

My problem with the inventory system is that it favours specialisation (along with the trait system, which is one of my biggest gripes with the game). Giving the player a hard limit on their ammo similiar to how it worked in Doom would force them to be dynamic in their weapon usage instead of grabbing a specific weapon within the first fifteen minutes and using it for the rest of the game.

[Thomas]

My problem with the inventory system is that it favours specialisation (along with the trait system, which is one of my biggest gripes with the game). Giving the player a hard limit on their ammo similiar to how it worked in Doom would force them to be dynamic in their weapon usage instead of grabbing a specific weapon within the first fifteen minutes and using it for the rest of the game.

Mmm. That's why I suggested that the first stack of any ammo type in your inventory should be three times greater than any other stack, at the cost of ammo rarity. Could at least be fun for a challenge mode or some sort of optional mod.