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[MaiZure]

All of the veteran players know that once you hit Sergeant Major rank, all modes have been unlocked and it's all badge farming until we give up. For the true elite, everything can be unlocked in under a dozen games...so this is an idea to extend the early game experience through adding more locked doors AND forcing/rewarding different styles of gameplay

Ranks are earned on the basis of individual game achievements (skill). Purpose: Unlocks Challenge Modes

Creature ranks are awarded primarily on endurance, you have to play a LOT to get these. Purpose: None (yet). I think these should unlock HMP, UV, and N!, but that's not the main point of this post.

Introducing...
Experience ranks. Earned through breadth of gameplay. Purpose: Unlock Traits and Uniques! Yes - you have to play the game for a little while before defaulting to that MAD build and Jackhammering your way to Diamond badges in your 3rd game. These new gameplay enchancements are far too great to fall in to the hands of a newbie marine!


Green
Exotics, but no uniques!
No advanced or master traits!
The challenge here is creating successful builds on basic traits only - This is what we did prior to 0.9.8.7

Rookie
All Advanced Traits unlocked
Unlocks 5 uniques

Seasoned
All Master traits unlocked
Unlocks 5 more uniques

Veteran
Unlocks all but the most overpowered uniques (see Slyphs guide)

Elite
All traits and uniques (save JackHammers and DragonSlayers for this)

What would this look like
"MaiZure, level 12 Elite Imp Sergeant, sacrificed himself to kill the Cyberdemon"

Ranking up should be based on breadth of gameplay as measured by medals and weapon-type kills. I this because as I read my current player file (new as of this recent beta), I have 7000 kills (118 melee, 1114 pistol, 400 chain, and over 4000 shotgun). I am clearly not a breadth player and shouldn't deserve the title of Elite (not to mention the right to use all the master traits and uniques)

Green -> Rookie
At least 250 kills in each of Pistol, Shotgun, and Rapid
Earn 3 different medal types

Rookie -> Seasoned
At least 1000 kills in Pistol, Shotgun, Rapid, Melee
Earn 6 different medal types

Seasoned -> Veteran
One win on all weapon-type challenges (AoMr, AoSG, AoB)
9 different medal types

Veteran -> Elite
You've won all weapon-type challenges on UV (or N!?)
12 different medal types


Now with the Creature rank recommendation above AND the recommendation that only ONE challenge mode is unlocked per rank instead of 3 or 4, we can create a more interesting game dynamic...You simply can't rise to the top of any of the ranks without addressing the others. For example:

Most can't dream of chasing platinum+ badges without master traits, so you have to take care of skill ranks. But you must also chase creature ranks to be able to access UV. Deferring the uniques will make it a little more difficult to chase badges from the start also.

When you reach Elite, gameplay will be exactly as we know it right now and shouldn't change any balance up to that point. What I hope this type of system would do is promote diverse playing styles before we simply jump in to badge farming. We also find a use for the medals and creature ranks

A few more considerations:
*This concept could probably be collapsed entirely under the currently unused creature ranks we have instead of creating this whole new rank system.

*Maybe traits could be spread over all five skill ranks and uniques should be unlocked entirely within creature ranks. Maybe you can find them but you cant use them until you reach the rank.


A final note on rebuttals:
The 0.9.9 badge enhancement was great for DoomRL veterans because it added new and exciting challenges for advancement. This system, on the contrary, does not add anything new and can easily be called "boring" and "tedious" because it's essentially forcing us to unlock the things that we've already been playing with for years!

But this system was not developed for veterans - it's for the thousands of people who are going to be coming down the road with the graphics version in the next 6 months...These people have never seen advanced traits, or master traits, or the best uniques, and I think we can really entice them to stick behind the keyboard longer if we extend what we already have in place as well as thinking of new and intersting ideas.

DoomRL was fun back in v0.9.8.5 and, I think earning your way to the latest features can be just as rewarding for a brand new player!

So please - Comments welcome!

[thelaptop]

I'm all for new challenges, but one reason why the new system was in place was to avoid having to overly limit the player into tedium.  I think that limiting traits might be a little nasty for the new players, since they will hear about this awesome game and find that they need to unlock a lot of things just to get to the level that the forums are talking about -- might not be good publicity.

As for uniques, they are already rare as they are, so deliberately limiting them sounds like an insult to the luck of the player.

Breadth play can probably be simulated in other ways... but then again not every one likes playing in a breadth way -- some like playing in a specialist form, and I think that we should respect the player's wishes that way.

Just my two cents.  (=

[Tavana]

If this idea is accepted: As opposed to restricting the use of uniques, instead restrict the spawn chance of them.

For example:
ChanceToSpawn(Jackhammer)
{
if Player.Exp.Rank()=Elite
return 15
else
return 1
}(Code looks cooler in Mortem tags!)

Nothing sucks more than having an awesome item spawn and not being able to use it, as people without Gut's mindset have discovered upon seeing Dragonslayer.

[ParaSait]

Nice job putting effort in typing that suggestion in all it's detail, but nah actually I think we should leave uniques like they are right now. This would really make it unlogic and unnatural.
Sure, one of the interesting aspects of DoomRL is the advanced achievement- and collectibles system which is basically the whole point of the game, but locking traits, depending spawn chance of uniques, or whether they can spawn or not, is a bit "too". ;)

[Fanta Hege]

....
More grind elements? No thank you.

Specialy since you're going about locking uniques, which, you know, were suppoused to those "Will spawn when RNG feels like it" items rather then "Do x amount of this to claim this neat reward" Even if they still have the random spawn factor, but the fact that you're suggesting to lock them from spawning if you havent done x of that makes them feel... not like the uniques we're used to.

We also allready have experience ranks for killing shit and taking medals, even if they don't unlock anything anymore so why add more?

This just... Feels pointless.

[Gargulec]

Nah! Nah! Nah!
It disallows me to play as I want- for example, I am not interested in UV AoMR, or AoSg N!- why the heck should I play them, then? What you are suggesting, is, for me at least, grand comeback to the well hated pre-0.9.9 rank system, which forced you to play challenges you did not want to get an ability to play the modes that interests you.

[Malek Deneith]

Another vote against. Sorry but I neither want to go through said grind to unlock traits/uniques, nor would I be able to unlock all I want (yes I'm talking about elite rank here, think what you want).

[ZZ]

Yes, the rank-up system you presented is rubbish, agreed with Gargulec. And rather than locking the uniques, let's lock the part of the game, like the demo. A green can't see antythink except firs 15 levels covered in "complex" layout. Next he will unlock the 24 levels without the Cybie (besides challenges), and some more layouts. Also, some monsters, like Mancubi&Revenant are blocked. Like the run through the older versions.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

I like it ;)

Instead of nay-saying, propose alternatives please.

[Gargulec]

Alternative? What ALTERNATIVE? Hey! I am not an elite, and I do not want to be penalized for not being able to beat AoSg on UV!, by disallowing me from finding a unique, or playing AoMC!

[Tavana]

The idea that's been suggested is too restrictive at the moment, in my eyes. Even with my earlier suggestion.

What I read here is "Let's make it a little less awesome at the beginning, and people can unlock that awesome!" People like awesome. People want awesome. On the flip side, people don't want you to take their awesome away.

I'd like to see these rank make it so the entire breadth of the game as it is right now (UV, N!, Master Traits, Uniques) are able to be unlocked by someone who can complete a HMP AoB run. It takes some skill, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Then, in response to that, the following ranks - if you can reach them - give you bonuses. It's our way of saying, damn! You spent an extra five hours unlocking things! Good job! We know you're a bit frustrated, but keep going, it gets better!

Suggestions for extra things:

• Subtle bonuses to traits
• Small increase in unique spawn chance
• Small increase to various globe spawn chance
• Elite level: Increased chance of Invulnerability globe on level 24

[Malek Deneith]

@Kornel - sorry but in this cease I'll have to keep on supporting Gargulec. I like idea of unlockable stuff, I really do but traints and uniques are where I draw a line.

@Tavana - HMP AoB? Nope. Nay. Nein. Nie. Nada. Personally I've beaten AoB... once... on HNTR. Yes I admit, finally doing that was satisfying.... that one time. And I don't want to repeat the experience in forseable future, and on higher difficulty. If I ever, ever, ever get to play AoB HMP/UV/N! I want it to be cause I either choose to challenge myself or wat a shiny medal - not because I need it to unlock stuff. And I don't wan't to be penalized for my lack of skill - because believe or not I'm a person that still plays HNTR mostly with a slight dash of HMP, and loose more often then win. And even if I'm only one sucking so much right now I don't think I'll stay alone if this comunity starts growing.

Rant & whine end.

[felttippen]

I support Tavanas suggestions.
It doesnt have to be AoB Hmp, maybe something like one full win and some normal ones or something similar.Blocking off master traits doesnt seem to make too much sense to me baucause you need the skill in question to get that far in the first place.If you play HNTR all the time- your fault.Could just play Xbox 360 instead with its "casual" "streamlined" "accessible" "appeal" to modern gamers.Nothing wrong with that.
Blocking off uniques?Im not sure.Could be viable with the addition of exotics, idont know.

But i really like the idea of Premium badges giving slight permanent bonuses- AoH N! could increase doomguys runspeed by 5% by default, or beating N!Ao100 would grant 5 extra HP to every marine,or winning N! AoSh could give point-blank shotgun blasts the possibility to gib monsters so they cant rez, or AoPc N! could have monsters randomly not attacking you for some turns.
To sum it up: some platinum and diamond badges will strengthen the player by default-
if we had this mechanic, we could also add a new set of badges, lets call em laser badges:INSANELY HARD to accomplish, but with bonuses earned from already hard challenges like increased globe spawnrate-unque spawnrate-buffed doomguy AND the skill the player gets from accomplishing these,we might have a winner!
Of course the downright impossible diamonds would have to be revised(Ao100 in under 1 hour?YEAH RIGHT!AoMR w/o SoG?PLEASE!)
Ao100 in under 90 minutes could be a laser badge for example.

Final words: Dont underestimate the appeal of unlocking stuff-its the way the industry works.DoomRL should follow the maxim of "easy to pick up-hard to master" even more than its the case now.People will just LUV it!

Wall of text FTW!

[ParaSait]

I like it ;)

Instead of nay-saying, propose alternatives please.

Argh D=
I agree with Gargulec and Malek... Please, PLEASE leave it alone like it is right now. For starters you can only disbalance the game with it, and takes away fun.
The achievement stuff is dependent on how well you do during games, but please do not make it the other way around; i.e. making gameplay dependent on what you achieved. It's like pouring tabasco over a delicious apple cake. ;_;
I'd say, keep it for DoomRL 2..? :S

[Fanta Hege]

I like it ;)

Instead of nay-saying, propose alternatives please.

Best alternative;
The current system.