Print

Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

But 6 armour on top of what you may already have isn't. Especially if you've got the LS and Angelic Armour. Even a meager blue armour can help you out of most situations, when added to a +6 zerking armour boost.

[Gargulec]

Hmmm... Any more opinions on that matter?

[Passionario]

Too hardcore, sadly. 6 armor is to little to keep you from getting slaughtered..

6 armor with the ability to one-shot pretty much anybody (x5 damage, autohit, remember?) combined with freakishly fast speed (attack *and* movement), however, will.

Think of it as melee's answer to Ammochain - 'overwhelming amounts of offense as best defense'.

[Gargulec]

Uhm... good point. I'll wait for Thomas to reply, however.

[ZZ]

Besides that that's a good idea, I can add that today this topic is far more than most posted topic. Maybe make it sticky for the time?

[Thomas]

I'm gonna agree with passionaro and SK Ren here.

However, even with SK Ren's idea it doesn't deter people from being a pansy quite enough.

Simple solution: Berserk packs give 2 (or even 3) extra levels instead of one. Berserk packs don't last as long. (Perhaps 30-40 seconds)
                       Any form of 100% or 200% healing (aside from picking up a berserk pack, of course) reduces your berserk level back down to 0.

This solution means that berserk packs will give you a quick fix of berserk (2-3 levels, but it only lasts for 30-40 seconds), good for starting off your killing spree but a poor way of keeping it going. The healing clause just means that unless you have MVp (which would imply you've killed a lot of enemies anyway), it's difficult to keep berserking after 25 seconds, unless you have a lot of small medpacks.

Complex solution: A variable keeps track of how long it's been since you last did a melee attack. The higher it is, the faster your berserk time drains away. This variable is reset back to 0 whenever you go down stairs.

This solution stops people from not killing anything (and gives them a decent way to de-serk without being forced to tab back down to 0) but may make AoB too complex, as there's already a few variables for the berserker to keep track of.

Now that I've typed them out, I think the first solution is better. Or both could be implemented at once.

The new system with passionaro's and SK Ren's ideas added:
1:Angered: +1 armour, x1.5 melee damage, +2 melee accuracy
2:Enraged: +2 armour, x2 melee damage, +4 melee accuracy, 0.8 movespeed, 0.8 attackspeed
3:Furious: +4 armour, x3 melee damage, autohit melee, 0.7 movespeed, 0.7 attackspeed, takes one damage per every turn in which is not in melee
4:Frenzied: +6 armour, x4 melee damage, autohit melee, 0.6 movespeed, 0.6 attackspeed, takes one damage per every turn in which no foe is slain
5:BERSERK!: +12 armour, x5 melee damage, autohit melee, 0.5 movespeed, 0.5 attackspeed, takes 4% of maxHP damage per second.
10:Crazed!: Same as BERSERK!, but you take 7% of maxHP damage per second.
15:Insane!: Same as BERSERK!, but you take 10% of maxHP damage per second.

EDIT: I was going to change this a little bit, but then gargulec posted a simpler idea so I've edited to his.

[Gargulec]

I'm gonna agree with passionaro and SK Ren here.

However, even with SK Ren's idea it doesn't deter people from being a pansy quite enough.

Simple solution: Berserk packs give 2 (or even 3) extra levels instead of one. Berserk packs don't last as long. (Perhaps 30-40 seconds)
                       Any form of 100% or 200% healing (aside from picking up a berserk pack, of course) reduces your berserk level back down to 0.

This solution means that berserk packs will give you a quick fix of berserk (2-3 levels, but it only lasts for 30-40 seconds), good for starting off your killing spree but a poor way of keeping it going. The healing clause just means that unless you have MVp (which would imply you've killed a lot of enemies anyway), it's difficult to keep berserking after 25 seconds, unless you have a lot of small medpacks.

Complex solution: A variable keeps track of how long it's been since you last did a melee attack. The higher it is, the faster your berserk time drains away. This variable is reset back to 0 whenever you go down stairs.

This solution stops people from not killing anything (and gives them a decent way to de-serk without being forced to tab back down to 0) but may make AoB too complex, as there's already a few variables for the berserker to keep track of.

Now that I've typed them out, I think the first solution is better. Or both could be implemented at once.

The new system with passionaro's and SK Ren's ideas added:
1:Angered: +1 armour, x1.5 melee damage, +2 melee accuracy
2:Enraged: +2 armour, x2 melee damage, +4 melee accuracy, 0.8 movespeed, 0.8 attackspeed
3:Furious: +4 armour, x3 melee damage, autohit melee, 0.7 movespeed, 0.7 attackspeed, takes one damage per every turn in which is not in melee
4:Frenzied: +6 armour, x4 melee damage, autohit melee, 0.6 movespeed, 0.6 attackspeed, takes one damage per every turn in which no foe is slain
5:BERSERK!: +6 armour, x5 melee damage, autohit melee, 0.5 movespeed, 0.5 attackspeed, takes 4% of maxHP damage per second.
10:Crazed!: Same as BERSERK, but you take 7% of maxHP damage per second.
15:Insane!: Same as BERSERK, but you take 10% of maxHP damage per second.

This. Totally agree. And Simple Solution is just way better. BUT: BERSERK! should give almost total protections. So, either 12, not 6 armor, or old way- all damage revived is reduced to one. If it is just 6 armor, BERSERKING! is more dangerous that useful.

[ZZ]

If it was intended to force the player to think twice before not killing anything, why Crazed!&Insane! is worse than BERSERK!. I think that +6 is okay, but on Crazed it'll change to +12, and the insane lasts less, but is invincible except of that 10% hp-. ANoter thought that it could eat CurHP, it'll make when you have little HP, you're berserking at no cost.

[Frankosity]

The berserk changes I would appreciate the most would be for the Berserker trait to activate on taking damage as dealing it, with the chance either way increasing the lower the player's health is.

I think I could get behind the idea of berserk effects 'stacking' as has been suggested.

[felttippen]

Well i´m not too sure about alll those suggestions, but one thing was evident when i gave the beta a spin: i couldnt even get my foot in the door on N!,/ got my ass handed over SEVERAL times.sergeant are even deadlier now, and even formers can kill you.
                            id say, the only problem we really need to fix is: give large meds the zerk ability!You could balance it by reducing the starting meds to one, but it would be oh so helpful.Chained court could be reachable this way, because right now, your only chance is that a zerk globe spawns right next to you, and that you can find the stairs befor it wears off.

[Gargulec]

                            id say, the only problem we really need to fix is: give large meds the zerk ability!You could balance it by reducing the starting meds to one, but it would be oh so helpful.Chained court could be reachable this way, because right now, your only chance is that a zerk globe spawns right next to you, and that you can find the stairs befor it wears off.

No. No. No. And no. It was like that long time ago, and was changed for a reason. Also, AoB in current beta is broken.

[felttippen]

No. No. No. And no. It was like that long time ago, and was changed for a reason. Also, AoB in current beta is broken.

whoa man, how bout you calm down a little?
i understand that you have a nice idea going and all, but lets reconsider:

-if we only give the starting meds this ability,the player could save him or herself once from a tight situation,and as we all know getting started is where AoBs broken, cuz your bound to receive overkill from formers and imps,not to mention captains, Knights souls and demons.
They all appear as soon as dlvl 3 where by now you most likely used all your meds if playing on nightmare.Its simply a dead end with buffed monsters, and your proposed system needs the berserker trait to work, but in my opinion its a little complicated to understand whats going on or what your bonuses/penalties are, or from who where or what you receive damage.I imagine it to be confusing.

[Gargulec]

I refuse to speak about N! before Dervis gives us a word. I am playing HMP, not N!.

[yns88]

I still think there hasn't been any true reason proposed as to why people should get punished for going on a rampage, especially with such draconian damages added.

If you don't want things to get so out of hand, maybe remove the CRAZED and INSANE modifiers and have the player's berserk level capped at 5. This means that if you're plowing your way through monsters you don't have to worry about your own body doing more damage to you than the monsters surrounding you, and likewise you won't get the silliness of having persistent berserk for 3 dungeon levels after the City of Skulls, since there's a cap to your berserk duration.

Also, +6 armor is really not enough. I think the current damage/4 is overpowered, but +6 armor would probably make AoB MUCH more difficult than it already is. There wasn't anything overpowered with the initially proposed +3/+6/+12/+999. As I pointed out earlier, having +12 armor is about equivalent to the current Berserk effect.

[leonresevil2]

Gosh, this topic is complicated.  Truthfully. I mean, no stat factors in DoomRL or Berserk! are that complicated as I can see. Really, if new players have to read pages of info and try to understand it just to play a single challenge (AoB) or play as one of the more difficult character builds, people will not want to do it. Playing melee would become even less popular. Really, compare the 3 or so melee uniques to the over 30 ranged weapons. That is a decent sign of the popularity of melee.
I do not like the idea of punishing the player for being on a killing streak. As far as I can recall, even the BerserkRL game does not damage the player for being on a streak (that may be completely wrong though, I'm sorry). Berserk does remove Berserking after healing, however.

Berserking in DoomRL, AFAIK is like a steriod-infused blood lust. The original Doom may have damaged the player while zerking (IDK, I was never sure about it, if I was getting shot or not) but I do not like the idea for damaging the player for picking up a pack or fighting enemies.

Compared to Ammochain builds, melee characters could use all the help they can get IMO. Stacking up Berserks, getting good weapons, ignoring damage, it's all good when you have to be in a monster's face to kill them most of the time. As said earlier, "Berserking is good, everything else is bad". I say, don't punish the player (taking away ranged weapons is punishment enough), don't make it complex, don't fix what wasn't broken.