DRL > Requests For Features

Rogue Like Doom or Doom Like Rogue?

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STL:
First of all, congratulations... nice game...
Now my ideas,

Currently, I'd classify the game as rogue with doom music, doom monsters, doom-like items and doom-like sotry line.

I'd actualy prefer to have more Doom experience from the game. therefore I provide my feature requests accordingly:

1- The first reason "Doom is Doom" is the ambience. There are things going on around, like monsters teleporting, lights going out, walls coming down to reveal monsters behind... all of these happen when the player does something, step on some location, pick up something, open a door, kill a monster etc. appliation of these, although being easy to implement can improve the gameplay experience a lot. Here is a list of items related:
- Create monsters at certain locations when user gets to some location. (this should be fairly easy to implement)
- Open (or destroy if you will) certain walls (revealing some monsters) when user steps on some location (this is even easier, since you have the wall removal code available)
- Light sources.. that may go out, or maybe destroyed. (ok this may not be easy)
- Keys/locked doors, which may trigger events... (ok this, I admit, may be hard)
All of these add to the complexity of dungeon generation, but IMO it's still manageable.

2- The second reason "Doom is Doom" is that it's scary. Although doom 1/2 provides this by surprise, doom 3 is quite successful by it's graphic quality, and other traits. Since it's not possible to do much graphics, and element of surprise is covered in the previous item, I believe only the ancient scare tactics remain: unknown. In DoomRL monsters have a really low vision. Something that you do not see firing at you is scary. This is probably just changing some constants in the code. Also if the monsters did not see (or hear maybe) me, they do not need to be activated, they do not need to wander into acid or lava and kill themselves. Finally for this item, I'd like to see "Spectre"s running around :). They can be indicated by dark grey background... which on most screens is not distinguishable unless you pay attention.

3- Doom is action.. I think, it's not fair for player to choose between firing/reloading or moving... I'd implement that as: in each turn, either shoot/reload or walk. If you walked, you can also shoot/reload (thus ed your turn), but if you did shoot, your turn is over. If you walked, and try to walk again, your turn is over, monsters move, and after them, you'll walk in the direction you preferred. I believe it is more complicated than just taking turns, but I don't think it's not implementable. The creatures however, should just make a decision to either move or shoot (as in doom).

4- Rockets, fireballs, plasma rounds, lightning balls... these are not instant hit weapons. Fireballs and lightning balls are already quite messy, since they are area effective and can destroy walls. I'd implement projectile logic, where you can actually, and willingly dodge projectiles. You might say then what is the point if you can dodge them, and the answer lies in the doom 1/2... What they lack in power, they make up in numbers. How many of you consider one imp as a threat when you have a shotgun with 50 rounds and full health/armor? How many of you consider 40 imps as a threat in same condition? See my point?

5-Missions can be nice.. Like in Doom 3, to do this, do this first.. and this can be implemented in multiple levels.

Anticheese:
First off, Nice post and welcome to the forums!

1 - Dungeon complexity would be nice, But when you are restricted to something like 60x40 you cant really do much. Something I would really love to see in DoomRL is levels the size of your average T-O-M-E level, But at the moment that wont happen. But if that could happen then trigger events would be possible.

2 - Something you dont see may be scary, But in a Roguelike its just a pain in the ass :-$, Kornel has however written an article or two on horror in Roguelike games (www.roguelikedevelopment.org) so it would be nice to see some of that in effect.

3 - Two actions a turn? I like it! Part of me says "Moving twice in one turn is not Roguelikeish!" The second part says "But what about potions of speed and the likes?" and the other part says "The original Dooms let you do this!" so two thumbs up!

4 - THANK YOU! It is a constant source of irritation to me that the only way to dodge fireballs is to move up and down at an angle to the enemy but in doing so you forfeit your turn!

5 - I had an oppertunity to try DoomRPG while at a clay shoot a few weeks ago, It has little strongholds in it that have NPC's, Computers and other such plot advancing objects, If my "Large Levels" solution could go through this would be a really great thing!

Thanks for the massive post!

Magekind:
Sorry - fear/horror? Once, playing Doom 3, I did jump, as a body twitched. Actually slid a ways, but regardless - I would have to say no. Yes, there's a... this evil, demonic overtone that you don't see as well in the DoomRL, but... that's because it's simplified. But as for fear, if Doom 3 were the horror game some said it was, I would never have played past the first level. I don't play for horror, it's the thrill, the action. Just me, but....

Aerton:
1 - That's nice, but it doesn't mix well with random levels. Would be great if some of this could be incorporated into a level generator.

2 - Low monster vision is going be fixed in a next version (current cateye abuse is not intended). Perhaps, AI will be improved too. Some rooms that reduce vision are nice and were suggested before. Spectres as barely visible symbols were discussed here a lot. General consunsus was that it suck.

3 - It will make things overcomplicated without real addition to gameplay. Friring on a move is currently modeled by dodge system.

4 - There is a dodge system that is intended to model these things. If you mean that projectiles should travel for several turns, it will make them useless, as it will be way too easy to simply step aside in most situations.

5 - There are some ASCII map of doom levels posted on this forum. It would be great if someday they will find a way into the game. It would also be a good place to use suggestions from 1.

btw, Kornel (as well as some other people here) consider Doom3 undoomish, so only Doom and Doom2 should be considered as inspirational sources.

STL:
1 - That's nice, but it doesn't mix well with random levels. Would be great if some of this could be incorporated into a level generator.

2 - Low monster vision is going be fixed in a next version (current cateye abuse is not intended). Perhaps, AI will be improved too. Some rooms that reduce vision are nice and were suggested before. Spectres as barely visible symbols were discussed here a lot. General consunsus was that it suck.

3 - It will make things overcomplicated without real addition to gameplay. Friring on a move is currently modeled by dodge system.

4 - There is a dodge system that is intended to model these things. If you mean that projectiles should travel for several turns, it will make them useless, as it will be way too easy to simply step aside in most situations.

Reply:

1- Some basic traps might be a "tile" in the generated map. The map generator is capable of creating rooms, this is in practice no different.

3- I tend to disagree. Players does not even need to notice this. The dodge system does not model firing while moving. Dodge system models, moving so you are not an easy target. There is no shooting in it. If you are facing 3 imps (normally, you should take them one by one, but random start does not help much) you can move all you wish to "dodge" their fireballs, but you'll eventually die, since, you have no way of shooting them while you are moving. Only option you have is to stand and shoot, in which case, you'll "catch" (allmost) every fireball thrown at you. ( I recently started a map in the middle of 5 cacodemons, and get toasted.) (this item should be implemented in conjuction with 4)

4- As far as I observed, current dodge system is not a good model to fit into pace of Doom. It looks like, the player can dodge bullets and projectiles alike. Dodge system can stay, but projectiles not being instant hit is important, and really adds more depth to the game. (Having a B o H fire at you and you move aside to watch acid(?)ball to strike down the imp). Plus, it does not make the game easier, if number of enemies are increased. Considering the projectiles have area effect, they are still pretty dangerous especially if there are many projectiles. Also take into account that the monsters can also dodge your projectiles. I'd suggest the projectiles to have the following speeds:
Imp fireball: 3 turns/move
BoH, HN acidball: 3 turns/move
Cacodemon lightningball: 3 turns/move
Rocket : 3 turns/ move
Plasma gun (yours and A's) : 2 turns/move
BFG : 6 turns/move
(did I miss any?)

And A slight chance of shooting the projectile can be added, which may only work for instant hit weapons. One final thing, If the projectiles are projectiles (hmm)  then there should be no chance to hit attached to them, if it visits your (or their) square it hits... no chance to miss (but it may be possible to dodge, if idea 3 is not there)...


Another list of quick adds:
6- Please add Mancubus... >:)

7- This is hard, but how about having an idea of front (so you do not see far behind your back). this would allow monsters attacign from behind... doom style.. Yay...

8- Mentioned many times, but i have an addition to that: Backpack. Backpack is a nice idea, but I think inventory management is a great dimension of the game. I'd think of backpack as an item in the inventory that takes one slot. when activated, contents of te backpack (which should not be too many, 5 or 6 items at most) can be accessed, and taken out of the backpack, while your inventory items are also visible and can be put into the backpack. Here is the deal: these actions should take time, so backpack will not be an extra inventory space, but a way to carry more "offline" items with you.

9- A few usability issues:

- I'd like to have an easy way to switch the item laying on the ground with an item in the inventory, or even something you are wearing. I request this because I think everyone is walking aroung with their inventoies full, an switching items is a pain. (Yey, I found a better armor, drop an item, get the armor, wear the armor, drop old armor, get the first item back). Note: I'm not suggesting the process should take less time (although it may), I'm just suggesting to have it easily accessible.

- I believe quick weapon switching keys should equip the weapon of the type that has most ammunition inside. I sometimes use switch rather than reload strategy... Lets say I have two shotguns, I fire one, I switch to pistol, when I switch back to shotgun I sould get the full one, not the empty.. (Also I should be able to switch from a weapon to same weapon if the one I have in my hands has less ammunition than the one in my inventory.)

10- How about weapon modifications that you can carry, and apply to a weapon? And maybe more than one... Rapid fastload advanced bfg... hell yea.

11- How about "advanced phase device", where you can choose where to go (or do you have that already I never get past lvl 14 yet)?

12- this has been suggested before, and I back it: Monsters attacking monsters, it adds quite a deal of strategy to the game.

13- Secret doors? doors that look like walls.. They may just be opened or player migh need to perform another action (search) to find them.

14- The Wall and locked rooms. I believe these suck. There should be a way to get these open without explosives, since there is no guarantee, the player can have explosives (=rocket) at that time. Locked doos can have keys placed in the level. for The Wall, I'd add some barrels, which can be used to blow the wall, or to blow the B's o H.

15- Actually 14 gave me an idea, how about c-4 that you can carry around, and deploy (like thermie but much much much smaller blast , say somewhat like barrels?).

I think it's enough for now.

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