DRL > Discussion
So I used three phases and couldn't get into the middle vault of the Vaults..
Tavana:
--- Quote from: Moniker on January 28, 2010, 23:01 ---I have to agree that while clearing the Vaults should be a difficult Achievement (tm) notwithstanding, forcing the player to phase into one of them is a rather inelegant way of doing it. You have to spoil yourself to figure it out; it vaguely reminds me of the rogue quest in NetHack. Much better to have to just rocket your way in, or walk through lava to find a hidden door, or something. Not like it'll make it any easier.
My 2c.
--- End quote ---
Quick reminder: This is DoomRL, not ADOM, not Nethack. There are only so many items. Finding the 1 correct item from 40 or so items isn't too hard, in comparison to 1 item out of several hundred items. This is nothing like giving an amulet of lifesaving to a dying man. This is "Brute force doesn't work? Holy crap! I have to think!"
Also: Hidden things in games are usually what make people play them longer. The "Easter Eggs" are the main reason that some people play.
BDR:
The troublesome thing about this particular gimmick is that IMO there's no way someone worth their salt as a player is going to carry five or more slots of phase devices and actually use all five of them in an effort to enter the center vault without knowing that is the only way to do it. Generally speaking, if you blow more than three non-ammo stacks in a single ordinary level it's a sign you've screwed up and are likely to pay the price for it. No other level in the game requires this kind of specialized inventory preparation in order to be completed. That "it's not NetHack" comment goes both ways; when was the last time you *needed* a chaingun to kill a Baron? :)
leonresevil2:
Agreed. The Vaults are not really an Easter Egg, nor will the fact that I cannot enter the vaults make me want to play it more and more. I think most players will try what they can, become frustrated, and either not bother entering the vaults when aiming for 100% kills, or look through the wiki and forums if they want the badges/loot. There are other places where the player has to think and prepare largely ahead of time (Full win, DS, master traits), but none that I know of require so many items, so much luck, and so much risk. In the even that you actually make it into the center, you'll have an awfully fun time telling the denizens that they must leave... in bodybags. The risk/luck/preparation involved in entering the center vault does not outweigh the reward, IMO (few items, rarely exotic or unique in center).
So, we could make it easier to enter the center (walk through lava or something), or make the Vaults more rewarding, more worth the 5 PDs likely needed, and akin to the name; "Vaults" make it sound like awesome treasures. Guaranteed Unique maybe?
Fanta Hege:
--- Quote from: leonresevil2 on March 15, 2010, 00:45 ---Agreed. The Vaults are not really an Easter Egg, nor will the fact that I cannot enter the vaults make me want to play it more and more. I think most players will try what they can, become frustrated, and either not bother entering the vaults when aiming for 100% kills, or look through the wiki and forums if they want the badges/loot. There are other places where the player has to think and prepare largely ahead of time (Full win, DS, master traits), but none that I know of require so many items, so much luck, and so much risk. In the even that you actually make it into the center, you'll have an awfully fun time telling the denizens that they must leave... in bodybags. The risk/luck/preparation involved in entering the center vault does not outweigh the reward, IMO (few items, rarely exotic or unique in center).
So, we could make it easier to enter the center (walk through lava or something), or make the Vaults more rewarding, more worth the 5 PDs likely needed, and akin to the name; "Vaults" make it sound like awesome treasures. Guaranteed Unique maybe?
--- End quote ---
Thats excatly how I feel.
Each time I ever happen to carry those 5 PD's and try the center vault, I'll each time make sure I'm either berserk or invulnerable when I start phasing. The risk of the revenant&vile pack that greets you on enter is just... Too damn risky versus the reward. I haven't personaly yet cleared the vaults as I've each time died or ran out of phases when trying to center vault. Hell I even once got there and cleared it..! Only to get stuck.
Though one other thing that could probably help is actually adding phase devices themselves inside the vaults. And generally better reward.
ChaoticJosh:
With the 'sealing it with lava' idea, you'd need an envirosuit pack or two, which is far easier to obtain than the phase devices. Also, for an idea of mine, how about make it similar to the wall, with a single large room in the center surrounded by many layers of destructable walls, and then you just need a bunch of missiles to get in.
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