DRL > Requests For Features

Saving request

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Melon:
This is a fast paced game, you shouldn't save every single step. Allowing only to save on stairs makes the game faster and limits save scumming.

leonresevil2:
Saving on stairs isn't that big of a hassle. If you need to abandon the game, simply don't close it. If your game time is an issue, then you are either playing for a speed run (likely under 30 minutes, which you can dedicate or reasonably retry later), or you are concerned about a time value that really isn't important (who cares if you took 2 hours or 20?). Considering the amount of effort that would be needed to make the change, I say No to saving anywhere. It's a hassle that can be dealt with.

action52:

--- Quote from: Melon on March 24, 2010, 01:16 ---This is a fast paced game, you shouldn't save every single step. Allowing only to save on stairs makes the game faster and limits save scumming.

--- End quote ---

This is not a fast-paced game unless you intentionally play it fast. You can spend 20 minutes thinking about every single move if you want. In fact, when you're surrounded by enemies you most definitely DO want to stop and think about things. Reacting to everything lightning-quick without thinking about it will get you killed.

Saving every step would be stupid anyway, since saving the game makes you exit every time. And as long as you're playing the game legitimately, it won't make the game any easier. If you are savescumming, then you aren't getting the true game experience anyway, so I don't see what difference it makes whether you savescum ever step or every level. Either way it doesn't affect my game in any way. Why does it bother you if other people savescum?

I personally would love to be able to save any time. In fact, I would like this even more than improved enemy AI. However I understand that I am the minority here. So I have no problem with other gameplay aspects taking precedent over this one, but I definitely want to see this implemented.

thelaptop:
I'll go out on a limb and say that allowing arbitrary saves is detrimental to game play.  By limiting saves only to between levels (aka when on the stairs), it negates the need for the player to remember what was going on in the map prior to the save, particularly when the next time the player loads the game, it might have been days since then.  Giving the player a clean slate (or level in this case) is beneficial for the player -- no need to remember what was going on other than the challenge mode activated and the build one is striving for.

DoomRL is a fast-paced game, compared to other rogue-likes.  However, "fast-paced" here does not refer to having to move all over the map at a frenetic pace -- it means that the total time required to complete a run is significantly shorter than that of other rogue-likes.  There are no quests, no fixed special item that you need, no long drawn out levelling up process, no item crafting, no shops, nothing -- that's what was meant by fast-paced.  Sure, one can take 20 hours to figure out the next best move via alpha-beta pruning, but as far as the game play goes, it's still fast.

The last thing to note is that for DoomRL, completely exploring each level is not a prerequisite to winning.

action52:

--- Quote from: thelaptop on March 24, 2010, 18:32 ---I'll go out on a limb and say that allowing arbitrary saves is detrimental to game play.  By limiting saves only to between levels (aka when on the stairs), it negates the need for the player to remember what was going on in the map prior to the save, particularly when the next time the player loads the game, it might have been days since then.  Giving the player a clean slate (or level in this case) is beneficial for the player -- no need to remember what was going on other than the challenge mode activated and the build one is striving for.

--- End quote ---

There would be nothing stopping you from waiting until you explored the level, going to the staircase, and saving there. In fact, I would probably do so whenever it was convenient to me. But for times when it is inconvenient, I would like to be able to close the game and come back later.

As for the game being "fast-paced," the original Rogue is arguably more "fast-paced" in the way you describe. In fact, later stages of the game are usually just a mad dash to find the staircase and get out of there before the monsters kill you. And the original Doom was literally a fast-paced action game. Both these games allowed you to save whenever you wanted to. I don't think it was detrimental to gameplay in either of them.

Because even if you think saving too much is detrimental to gameplay, the thing is you never have to save your game. You can save as much or little as you want to. It's your choice. So having the option to save more shouldn't affect your gameplay unless you consciously allow it to.

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