Chaosforge Forum

  • August 16, 2022, 23:21
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Whizkid isn't consistently practical  (Read 2980 times)

ChaoticJosh

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 141
    • View Profile
Whizkid isn't consistently practical
« on: April 07, 2010, 12:54 »

Check my discussion in my latest mortem to see most of my points:

http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,2988.msg25587.html#new

In short, in a run which I wanted to experiment with whizkid, I never even got the chance because I never got enough mods to sanely consider choosing it upon each level up.

Now, I don't think Whizkid is a bad trait. It's a good trait, in theory. It's just that, in practice, you're at the mercy of the RNG due to mods being rare enough that you can't get enough of them to justify Whizkid's existence.

What I mean is: Whizkid has trouble standing up by itself. Traits like badass and dodgemaster are good traits in-and-of themselves, while whizkid requires that you have enough mods to justify it's existence, which is only seldomly the case. Ammochain (which has whizkid as a prerequisite) helps this a tiny bit, as one can sanely overspecialize with a tricked out plasma rifle and just neglect other weapons entirely, but if this is not the case, then it's a alot tougher to consider whizkid as being a real good choice in one's planned trait progression.

So, what I'm suggesting is any number of things:

1) That mods be made more plentiful in RNG generation of a level.
2) That whizkid be made more accessible in the trait list. As it being a third level trait means you have to consciously plan to get it, and then hope to god you get enough mods to justify it's existence.
3) That modding be altered in some other way that I haven't thought of.
Logged

raekuul

  • Supporter
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 668
  • Storyteller Under The Bridge
    • View Profile
    • Veldania
Re: Whizkid isn't consistently practical
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 14:00 »

WhizKid only requires Maximum Finesse, right? I play a lot of games where I go for the highest single shot speed possible, so I usually go for Finesse first unless I'm playing a challenge game. Yeah, it's not as useful as other traits that need some planning for, but on everything other than AoMr I've already got the highest attack speed I can without mods. Therefore, I usually take WhizKid as soon as it's available, with the expectation that I'll find some fire-speed-increasing mods.
Logged
Quote
Tormuse doesn't lose, he dies on purpose to lull the demons into a false sense of security.

Game Hunter

  • Programmer
  • Local Inquisitor
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1044
  • Looks like game to me.
    • View Profile
    • Channel, the Roguelike
Re: Whizkid isn't consistently practical
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2010, 01:02 »

I won't disagree that Whizkid lacks the consistency to be useful in every game, but I will mention other points that may enlighten this discussion.

There are some traits that you're also at the mercy of the RNG.  Hellrunner first?  Plenty of Sergeants can still kick your ass.  TaN first?  Plenty of Demons can (now) kick your ass.  Triggerhappy can be a life-saver or an ammo-waster, usually the latter.  Intuition won't save you from arach caves, and there are plenty of those.  Dodgemaster is worthless against Viles, Revs, sometimes Manucbi, and it's not hard to find packs later on.  Shottyman requires a shotgun to use, so whenever you aren't you're wasting it.  These kinds of traits are expected in plenty of games, but just the wrong kind of situation turns them into a steaming pile of points you could have used in something much more reliable (Finesse, SoB for rapid-fire, Ironman).

But I get it: sure, all those other traits have still been proven to be things that should work as long as the RNG is not particularly working to screw you over with things no amount of traits could handle.  (Ugh, Vile/Mancubi in mazes, I'm looking at you.)  But man, a few extra mods can really, REALLY make a difference.  Have you seen an assault (or combat) shotgun at P3T2 before?  I was killing off the radar three times the normal rate.  Talkin' HKs and Cacos and REVs here.  Super-modded pistols are just about the only way to play a MGK run that isn't loaded with arach caves.  Mods on weapons can turn a tough situation into a really easy one.

- Pistol?  Bulk gives more ammo before you waste precious time reloading, power causes more knockback (hell YES for pistols), tech puts the speed up to insane firing rates (again, hell yess for pistols)
- Shotty?  MFa runs desperately need a way to compete with MAD's damage, and power does just that.
- Rocket launcher?  A place way to use up extra bulks without wasting them...that insane reloading time is priceless on a single-shot.
- Chaingun?  As much as P2 makes it about as awesome as a plasma on average, and P2T# turns it into a great way to conserve ammo (bullet hold double what cells do).
- Minigun?  A2/3 and you're golden.
- Nuclear BFG?  P2B3 = normal BFG capabilities AND self-charging.


Tech mods in general are absolutely invaluable on any skirmish weapon.  Bulk keeps those armors alive well past their prime, agi makes you feel like you aren't even wearing any: combined it's a double armor without penalty.  There's a good reason adv weapons were taken out, and part of that reason is that they can get very broken, albeit slowly.

Whizkid isn't consistent, but it DOES make a huge difference with the right equipment.  A100 benefits immensely from it.  And, just as with any trait, you take a gamble as to what you're going to end up with.  Shotty builds want tight packs of enemies, MGK wants wide open spaces, MCe wants long hallways.  And Whizkid wants a few more mods than usual.  It may be more chancy, but the only differences are that it wants the right items instead of agreeable map generation and the benefits are better when they pay out.

It'd be kinda cool to be able to "mod" two shotguns together and make a double shotgun that way, though.  Mod weapons onto other weapons.  Maybe the first level is that, and the second level can let you remove mods (at the cost of losing the equipment) and stick 'em back in your inventory.  I gotta say, some games you'll have so many mods you won't know what to do with 'em.  It's really a luck of the draw, and sometimes uniques have a way of impeding on mods' usefulness.

On an off-topic note, I wouldn't mind power mods changed to a different color.  Exotic mod looks just like 'em now.
Logged
I'm just a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.

Latest LPs: Angband, Delver

ChaoticJosh

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 141
    • View Profile
Re: Whizkid isn't consistently practical
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 14:59 »

You do make an interesting point, but I still feel that the other traits give you a benefit regardless of the situation, while Whizkid is more at the mercy of the RNG than usual. To tell you the truth, I've never had a superbly modded out weapon in all my victories, so I honestly can't comment on how useful a fully modded one can be.

You see, the point I'm trying to make is that you can make a strategy and playstyle around other traits, but you can't make a strategy around whizkid because it involves so much chance that it's impossible.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 15:01 by ChaoticJosh »
Logged

Psion

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Whizkid isn't consistently practical
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 15:46 »

What if one of the unique levels gave you an item you're specced for?
Logged

ChaoticJosh

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 141
    • View Profile
Re: Whizkid isn't consistently practical
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 17:09 »

What if one of the unique levels gave you an item you're specced for?

Elaborate.
Logged

Fanta Hege

  • Elder
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 414
  • Will it work? I HAVE NO IDEA
    • View Profile
Re: Whizkid isn't consistently practical
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 19:29 »

Elaborate.

2 Agility mods in the chained court.
1 agility, 1 power and 1 bulk in hells armory
1 Power and 1 bulk mod in mortuary
Logged
i dont even know anymore
Pages: [1]