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[Derek]

One thing I would like to see in a new version of DoomRL is more interesting room designs... something other than square!  I love the special bloody rooms with the good items in them... and the rooms within a room.  Kornel, you (I think) mentioned the idea of having things like pillars and lamps at some point.  With graphics, we can also change the floor and ceiling tiles to make some (graphically) very interesting looking spaces.

So, unless Kornel has a problem with it, I'd like to get some discussion going about rooms and have people post their ideas!  Use the code tags to post your rooms:

To get started, I think at the very least some rooms with pillars to hide behind would be fun:

Code: [Select]

#########
#.......#
#.#.#.#.#
#.......#
+.......+
#.......#
#.#.#.#.#
#.......#
#########

Circular rooms:

Code: [Select]

  ####
 #....#
#......#
+......+
#......#
 #....#
  ####


Code: [Select]

  #+##
 #....#
#......#
#..##..+
+..##..#
#......#
 #....#
  ##+#

"Closets":

Code: [Select]

#######
#h#[#h#
#+#+#+#
#.....#
+.....+
#.....#
#######

Vaults (lever opens wall, like in City of Skulls):

Code: [Select]

########
#......#
#...####
#...#B|#
+.&.#|{#
#...#B|#
#...####
#......#
########

And here's a regular square room to grab for your own use:

Code: [Select]

########
#......#
#......#
#......#
#......#
#......#
#......#
########

DISCUSS!!!

(p.s. can we change the code font to like courier new or something?)

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Yes, I think this is a great topic and I'd like to see more discussion here :D.
(I'll see what can be done about the code font)

[Derek]

Here's a great resource: screenshot maps of every level from Doom/Doom II!

A couple more room ideas I had:

Bridges over slime/lava (like in the first level of Doom 2):

Code: [Select]

########
#======#
#===...+
#==..==#
#==.===#
+...===#
#======#
########

Maze rooms with monsters and items:

Code: [Select]

########
#i#....+
#..#h#.#
#.####.#
#...[#.#
#.####.#
#h#{c..#
########

Crappy example, but it's hard drawing these maps!

[Malek Deneith]

And if you'd want to annoy players you could do "monster vaults" - i.e. large rooms choke-full of monsters ("let's see, 10 demons, 7 lost souls, a cacodemon, 2 hell barons and 5 arch viles at the very end... oh god...")

It's soo good to be bad xD

[tekknej]

the lair of vile(s) =)   (yeah, kinda like something you know... down there... just a bit smaller)

Code: [Select]

####+###
#%.....#
#...%..#
#..V.###
###%..%#
#[%%%V.#
#%%{%%.#
########
also i want to see more teleporters around =) some of them could be not so random... the 2way teleport: (the exit points are marked with bodies =) )

Code: [Select]

########
#......+
####*..#
#.%##..#
#..##%.#
#..*####
+......#
########


[Blade]

Unfortunately lair of Vile can't be created, due to monster AI. All monsters are active at the beggining of level. So Arch-Viles too begins to ressurect dead monsters when there are dead bodies around, not when player is in their sight. So when you'll enter this room, you will find Arch-Vile with lots of other monsters around him.

[Malek Deneith]

But there probably is a way to code the game so that AV would be spawned upon entering the room ... I think >>

[Blade]

Yes, but then you must count that player can destroy any wall(even back, where items laying) and enter room from any square(or be teleported in). It's a real good idea of making trap rooms, where monsters are spawning only when you enter or do some action. In original DooM such moments were used all around the game, so it is very DooMish style(i really like such moments there very much!).

[tekknej]

do viles open doors? and do they ressurect only in LOS?
anyway...

Code: [Select]

###+####
#......#
#......#
#.%&%..#
#%%%%%.#
########
#[VVVV{#
########
and more good one:

Code: [Select]

######+######
#&..%%.....&#
#..%%%%%.%..#
#...#####...#
#.%.#V{V#%%.#
#...#[V[#.%.#
#%%.#####%%.#
#...%%%.%...#
#&.....%%..&#
##+#######+##
levers strip walls =)

[Blade]

They ressurect not only in LOS. There was many times, when Arch-Vile, sitting in closed house, was ressurecting everybody outside in certain distance.
What about doors - i don't know, mostly i meet them on open space, where is no doors.
How many Arch-Viles can you kill at once? And how many ammo, health and armor you had lost for this? Just imagine that there are two such Arch-Vile rooms on one, or on near by levels. IMHO it's insane to place multiple Arch-Viles in one room. Maybe two is still ok, but three is too much.

[tekknej]

i hope mortuary on Nightmare! is truely a Nightmare! =)

[Derek]

tekknej, I like your ideas!  I think Kornel was talking about changing it so that Archviles could only ressurect enemies in their LOS, so the room you're talking about could work.

More room ideas!  More!  (I'll contribute more of my own later.)

[tekknej]

thank you, Derek. btw is it possible to help Kornel add some stuff in a game? =)
i'd suggest to talk in more general terms here... algorythms of level generating =) its more interesting than tiny rooms... also i would like to see maybe some randoms in special levels... it'll make them much more interesting... terrainwise and rewardwise... =)
its really good to clear out some tough special level and being one step from seeing what you're gonna get for your hardwork =)
examples:
=Hell Arena. make pillars random, maybe add something more interesting than pillars, but not too much - its arena anyways =) also the type of monsters and reward could vary...
=Hell Armoury. make a level consisting of connected islands in lava, connected by small bridges or kinda one big island which has some interesting form (damn, that sounds not so understandable... okay - like first variant, but bridges are not small and in fact they form a one big island... hell my words are complicated, i'm from russia =)...). then put buildings on terrain, put some stuff there =)

[tekknej]

okay, some ideas about levels...
ultimately every level should be interesting and different in many ways. in fact this will mostly obsolete current specil_levels system... i think it would be cool to firstly decide on the type of a level, that shoul be generated (it's already implemented: complex, maze of rooms / etc). then accordingly to a level type optionally divide it into number of zones (not many - 2,3,4) and then decide what each zone will be... also each zone could contain some small stuff, like 'rooms' mentioned above. rooms of course are not a prerendered patterns, but a general idea.

example based on what is currently implemented:
level type - former human base
three zones divide it vertically, one of them iz maze of rooms, the other two are complex. each zone could have its own flags like lotsa_barrels.
in each could be rooms like vaults etc...

some other example which in fact forgets about special levels to use them as parts: =)
level type - HellBridge (has a river of lava going through center of level vertically or horizontally, or even maybe at angles if the developer is workaholic =). also has a bridge or a couple). the two parts that are separated by river could be chosen from standart zones for HellType levels... this could be hellish caves, hell city, hell hall (some big building which may have some small rooms and a big one in the center), hell armoury, mortuary (little one), pillars (kinda like in hell's arena, but more interesting), etc...
okay... RNG chooses... ummm... okay - pillars and HellHall (to make things really new =) )
of course the zones could be of the same type, like two caves... (oh, the caves are not so good idea in their current implementation - they are not open).
so... pillars and HellHall.
pillars: some masses of walls in blocks like you've seen in Hell's Arena, some a bit bigger, some very small. some pillars could be connected using a standart wall. some pillars rarely could contain 'secret' stashes in them (so thay are either destructable, or have destructable parts). splashes of lava may apply like in current Hell levels. maybe a lonely small building packed with monsters could be found (The Keepers Of The Pillars) =)
HellHall: 1) generate some huge rectangle building with some doors, but leave some place outside (will be needed later). 2) make the roads of blood (maybe mixed with lava) go from doors to the central area of the building. 3) make some side rooms adjacent to walls, using the space not used for 'bloodroads', some of these rooms could contain some specialities (could use standart room routine for them, or a bit tuned one, like no_circle_rooms, no_vile_lairs, etc =) ). 4) make some rooms outside of main building, these rooms are smaller, could have doors outside, inside or both. so the Hall will not be a plain rectinagle if seen from outside =) 5) the center area - some variants... in fact if some monsters tend to keep in the center of a map (i dunno if its optional in current AI system) - then if this HellHall zone is only one on entire map (then the level type would be like PlainSingleZone) - the center area could be a lake of lava and blood with lots of lost souls. otherwise it could be just some stash and monsters. or have an always_special_room in the center (choosen from standart special rooms). or have some single char walls with monsters behind, like this:

Code: [Select]

  #  # #   
#  m# m  #
 # #^ # #
  m #m 
#  #  #m#
 #   #   #


damn, i must haven't slept for too long =) hope my english is not so bad... =)
of course all of it are just general thoughts and it would be really hard to implement an ultimate level system, but i think that some step to it are not so brain*arch-vile*ing. =) the current level generation system is too simple. replayability is one of the coolest parts of roguelikes and different levels make it way much better.

P.S.: hell, why didn't i browsed forum in case a thread disscussing that issue already exists?.. hope not =)

[Adral]

A beneficial room: the armoury:

Code: [Select]

########
#}|...&#
#}|...&#
#####+##
+......#
########

The levers could act as armor repairers or med-kits or both. Or act as a nasty trap, who knows... :>
Monsters should be scattered on the room, but mainly they should be former humans to keep the theme.
Weapons could be random or adapted to the current Dlvl.

Also, I miss very much the tech-inspired rooms that filled the whole Doom on episode 1. I don't know how these could be done, perhaps adding different colors or adding a new tile that represent a computer. Obviously, these rooms should always come equipped with a handy computer map.

In my opinion, these would add to the atmosphere of the Phobos base being a, umm, military base, you know :P