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Assemblies and game balance

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Tuomari Jim:

--- Quote from: RogerN on March 17, 2011, 20:06 ---Micro Launcher
Why would I want one of my biggest guns to do *less* damage?  Seriously, if I want a launcher more suited for combat then I'll probably clean out The Wall and grab a missile launcher.  Its 4-rocket capacity is much better suited to heavy combat situations than the negligible speed improvements of the Micro Launcher.  Practically speaking, most of my rockets are used for busting walls anyway - so this assembly is a definite downgrade.

--- End quote ---

Why do people always seem to forget that it also gets a +3 improvement to accuracy? But even then I'm not sure if it's a good trade-off. It *might* be helpful in clearing out the Wall, since you really don't want to miss when shooting at the Hell Barons, but then again you have to fire more shots if you're using the micro launcher.

The tactical rocket launcher, however, doesn't even get the accuracy bonus, just the increased clip size and a small decrease to reload time. Definitely not worth the 3 bulk mods imho.

RogerN:

--- Quote from: Thexare on March 17, 2011, 21:44 ---The Elephant Gun hits almost as hard (12d3 vs. 16d3 if I'm understanding the double shotgun bug right) at a considerably longer range. Shottyman completely negates the reload issue.

--- End quote ---

But consider the following: If you take a regular combat shotty and apply a technical mod pack then you can fire in 0.8 seconds and pump in the next shell in 0.2 seconds.  That's a total of 1 second per shell, at least for the first 5 shots.

With the elephant gun it'll cost you 1 second to fire plus your movement speed to reload (usually around 0.6 or 0.7 for me since Hellrunner is blocked on MAD runs).  Once you factor in the movement time, the DPS of the elephant gun is worse than the modded combat shotgun.

Also, I'm almost always using my shotguns from cover.  Shottyman is practically useless in that situation because I don't want to step outside of my cover.  If I take a step backwards and then forwards then the sum cost of two steps is just as slow as a regular reload.

DeathDealer:

--- Quote from: drugon on March 17, 2011, 11:07 ---I think that there is a big problem with traits balance now. I mean - whizkid. With assemblies it becomes very useful trait (even more useful than earlier). More than that - you need it to take ammochain trait. And I think that ammochain is a very dishonest trait. Just infinite ammo for all chainfire weapons (and chaifire are the best weapons in the game in my opinion). More than that - you can't take army of the dead if you decided to take whizkid. I think that traits should be rebalanced somehow.

--- End quote ---

I agree with this. I think Whizkid has to stand on it's own from the master traits, like Ironman, it shouldn't be part of the requirements for them. I can see two levels of finesse being required, but with the new assembly benefits it's too much.

DeathDealer:
Let me suggest an alternative assembly structure:

At least one assembly for each exotic/unique mod in each of the three assembly levels (basic, advanced, master) that doesn't include more than one exotic/unique mod.

At least one melee, single fire, rapid-fire, armor, boot assembly per level that doesn't require an exotic/unique mod and a more even mix of different mod types used to construct them. (Right now power mods are required for almost everything whereas technical and agility mods are used in very few.)

I know some ideas similar to this are in the works so here's the wild and crazy part of my suggestion:

Using a mod on another mod results in a random mod that isn't either of the first two, with a small chance of creating an exotic mod. The chance of creating an exotic mod could increase each time a character combined mods and reset if they ever produced one.

Sambojin:
I've played around a fair bit with the assemblies in 0.9.9.2 and you're right. The WK and mod requirements are way off on a reasonable power/use trade-off. And remember that we've all been completing the game without them for quite some time now. The guns are great or useless, the armour is similar (and somewhat pointless sometimes. They're great, but to me onyx or similar means win-the-game-if-you're-not-stupid). The thing I do like is that there seems to be quite a few more mods about (even just due to the armoury bonus). Basic modding is easier, which makes the 0.9.9.2 assemblies either great or crappier than normal modding depending on WK in your build.

If I found a nano pack, I'd probably be happy putting it on a RL/ML/shotgun or a red armour. Actually, from that point on I'd think it was up to me to not lose the game. Having hyper-super weapons wouldn't really be a concern. I just lost my ammo requirement for a good weapon or got some nice armour. Times two if I had levels in WK (giving me some really nice weapons, armour and options for them). A power/bulk/nano red armour is kind of industructable as it is. Or almost with good playing.

Some of the other assemblies that look like the would be REALLY useful are a bit hard to get. I'd friggin love plasmatic shrapnel if it didn't need a nano pack. Hell, I'd love "bullet damage, 10mm style" shrapnel if I could get it.  I don't really care if it doesn't regen ammo. Not because bullet damage shrapnel would be super-powered, it'd just let me use my shotties a lot longer into the game with a lot more builds. Otherwise the combat/double/single shotty just becomes a spotlight for creature hunting/corner shooting. But right now its either AoTD "blasty", fireangel "dodger-iffic" or "hope-like-hell-you-find-a-nano-and-now-get-a-shotty-that-is-probably-too-good". It's an on/off choice for shotguns, and you have to WK build for the last option anyway. The same goes for chaingun assemblies. There's not too many cases where a modded plasma gun isn't better, more useful and more reliable. And ammo isn't THAT bigger problem for plasmas if you don't go all stupid with them and they don't need a WK/TH/SoB/Mac build to be useful (ala Assault rifle, Assault cannon).

I guess this post probably came off too much as a whinge. But I don't think assemblies should really be about power (compared to uniques/exotics or by themselves). I think they should be more about useablilty. My bulk modded BFG, agility modded plasma, tech/bulk RL/ML, modded armours and power/tech modded shotties already do it for me. They can take down cybie and often take down JC. I just want more options to use them with different builds. For all the weapons really. The tactical kits seem great, even the speedloader pistol is nice. The rest just kind of seem hopeless or overpowered. And very, very random in their usefulness to anything other than a WK build, when normal WK modding does the biz anyway.........

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