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Author Topic: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...  (Read 4233 times)

Blahness

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Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« on: April 07, 2011, 16:19 »


You open the door.                                                             
 You open the door.                                                             
 ##############################################################################
 # \                      ........#...........#.0.#......0........#...........#
 #    0                  .........#.....|.....#...#...............#...........#
 #                  |    .........@......}....#...#...............#......\....#
 #              0        .........#...........#...#....}}.........#...........#
 #                        ........#...........#...#..|..||......../.0.........#
 #                        ........#...........#...#######################/#####
 #                         ...... #.........../.../.../.....|./...............#
 #                         ...... #...........#...#####/#######################
 #                          ....h #...........#...#...}.#.....................#
 #                           h.h  #...........#...#..|%.#.....................#
 #     ^                       h  #...........#...#.....#.................0...#
 #                   >            ###############/#.....#.....................#
 #                    0           #...............#...../...........0.........#
 #                                #.0.............#.....#.....................#
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 #                                #...............#.....#.....................#
 #        0            |          #...............#.....#.....................#
 #                                # .....0........#.....#.....................#
 ##############################################################################
 Blah                       Armor : green armor [1/1] (69%)                     
 Health: 8%   Exp:  2/45%   Weapon: combat knife (2d5)                         
 tired                                                       Phobos Base  Lev3 


I came down the stairs on the topright box, and burnt through all of my medikits being pushed around by shotguns.  That, and the previous floor had a shotgun guy in a narrow corridor that I took huge damage from. 

I guess I don't like how luck-based shotgun guys make AoB.  </rage>

Is it true that AoB has been made easier?  And what do I do in situations like these?
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RogerN

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 17:02 »

Quote
And what do I do in situations like these?

In that screenshot you're as good as dead.  There are a couple faint glimmers of hope, though:

1) There are two fuel barrels in the far southeast room that could be pushed into the room directly to your east side.  If positioned against the wall properly and then detonated by throwing your combat knife, these barrels might kill enough enemies to give you a fighting chance.  This is not a good chance for survival, but it's better than trying to run 10 tiles to the stairs with two former sergeants gunning for you.

2) With a little more health you could try gift-dropping your green armor 1 tile to the northwest - but you're almost guaranteed to take some damage, so it probably wouldn't work in this case.

AoB is definitely not a "fair" challenge; there are frequent no-win scenarios, especially prior to The Chained Court.  On harder difficulty levels it can be a major challenge just to survive past level 2.  You need some good luck to make it to The Chained Court on Ultra-Violence or Nightmare.  Or at least you need the absence of bad luck.

Once you've got your chainsaw and the Berserker trait then your survivability rate goes up a bit.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 17:06 by RogerN »
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thelaptop

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 17:06 »

Not so much as made simpler, but you have more options to exercise.

For one, the 'zerk bug is fixed, so AoB in 0.9.9.2 is a tad easier than in 0.9.9.1 where the bug was.  And with the inclusion of assemblies, you are no longer limited by the triad of Combat Knife/Chainsaw/Longinus Spear -- you can take the Combat Knife and make something almost as powerful as the Chainsaw early enough in the game if you are lucky (I'm just conveniently ignoring the unique melee weapons here and am referring only to those "guaranteed" ones).

Also, Fin works with increasing the attack speed of a melee character, which of course is a much bigger boost.

I'm not an expert in AoB (far from it!) but it would seem that you would benefit from lots of patience and gift-dropping near the door way to draw the formers closer to you.
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ParaSait

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 00:59 »

Oh, where is Gargulec when you need him... :P
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grommile

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 01:17 »

thelaptop: The assembly you're thinking of is exactly as powerful as an unmodded chainsaw, but you have to get lucky to have the mods for it before Chained Court. It's mostly relevant to Ao100 melee runs and Strongman Silver/Gold attempts (since it still counts as a knife).
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rchandra

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 01:21 »

dropping your armor where you stand might work.  One square NE would be safer but I don't think they'll be able to see that one, the angle is pretty steep.

One other barrel option: explode the wall where they are and perhaps the one on the east side of the room, immediately moving to the north wall out of sight.  they should move eastward, letting you escape.  (all 4 non-wall barrels can be moved into that room - this also gives you the option to use a chain reaction, detonating their wall without being in sight of the enemies)

basic melee assembly is more powerful than chainsaw, isn't it? except that it can't be further modded.
More reliable berserk makes the mid and late games much fairer.
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Gargulec

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 02:19 »


You open the door.                                                             
 You open the door.                                                             
 ##############################################################################
 # \                      ........#...........#.0.#......0........#...........#
 #    0                  .........#.....|.....#...#...............#...........#
 #                  |    .........@......}....#...#...............#......\....#
 #              0        .........#...........#...#....}}.........#...........#
 #                        ........#...........#...#..|..||......../.0.........#
 #                        ........#...........#...#######################/#####
 #                         ...... #.........../.../.../.....|./...............#
 #                         ...... #...........#...#####/#######################
 #                          ....h #...........#...#...}.#.....................#
 #                           h.h  #...........#...#..|%.#.....................#
 #     ^                       h  #...........#...#.....#.................0...#
 #                   >            ###############/#.....#.....................#
 #                    0           #...............#...../...........0.........#
 #                                #.0.............#.....#.....................#
 #                      0         #...............#.....#.....................#
 #                                #...............#.....#.....................#
 #        0            |          #...............#.....#.....................#
 #                                # .....0........#.....#.....................#
 ##############################################################################
 Blah                       Armor : green armor [1/1] (69%)                     
 Health: 8%   Exp:  2/45%   Weapon: combat knife (2d5)                         
 tired                                                       Phobos Base  Lev3 


I came down the stairs on the topright box, and burnt through all of my medikits being pushed around by shotguns.  That, and the previous floor had a shotgun guy in a narrow corridor that I took huge damage from. 

I guess I don't like how luck-based shotgun guys make AoB.  </rage>

Is it true that AoB has been made easier?  And what do I do in situations like these?

1)Drop any item where you stand, preferably the armor.
2)Drop any second item where you stand. Due to DoomRL engine, it will get moved into one of nearby unoccupied tiles, so with a little bit of luck, it will land to your left. This item must be a consumable, though. If it lands to the right, pick it up and drop it again over the armor.
3)Make one step SE.
4)Wait until formers start to come under your butchering hand.
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StarStorm

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 03:47 »

Heh, at that point, I just give it up as a bad job. It's fairly easy to just start again.
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grommile

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 11:01 »

basic melee assembly is more powerful than chainsaw, isn't it? except that it can't be further modded.
Nope. Chainsword has the same damage as a chainsaw. It's got +2 accuracy, but all reasonable AoB builds involve at least two levels of Brute. (I might be forgetting a swing time reduction that isn't documented on the wiki, of course.)
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Blahness

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 13:47 »


1)Drop any item where you stand, preferably the armor.
2)Drop any second item where you stand. Due to DoomRL engine, it will get moved into one of nearby unoccupied tiles, so with a little bit of luck, it will land to your left. This item must be a consumable, though. If it lands to the right, pick it up and drop it again over the armor.
3)Make one step SE.
4)Wait until formers start to come under your butchering hand.


Ah, see, this is what I tried.  They meleed me to death.  This method has the problem of an item not dropping to the left, and if you move back onto your armor, everyone in the room gets a shot at you.  I might be mistaken, though.  (That, and I had no more consumables).
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Deathwind

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Re: Ah, I remember why I don't like AoB...
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2011, 17:47 »

go to the room with the 2 barrels and push them all the way into the bottom left corner and set them off, then walk along the bottom row past them and double back to the stairs.
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