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DoomRL featured on Roguelike Radio!
Game Hunter:
MaiZure really called that one!
--- Quote from: Darren Grey on September 21, 2011, 08:17 ---I'm curious as to what regulars here think about the unlocks though. I really could dig the game a lot more if I had instant access to the content I want. Does it not frustrate others when switching between computers, or when you have to do a reinstall? Does it not make it harder to introduce to your friends?
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To begin, player records have been compatible since 0.9.9.0, and KK has said that he will continue to make this work for subsequent versions. Furthermore, the records are also backed up multiple times by default (and they're as easy to move around as copying the player.wad and score.wad files to the other directory). Thus, there shouldn't be detrimental problems with moving to another computer or reinstalling unless the entire DoomRL directory was corrupted or removed. In other words, if you've played a few weeks, you should have everything unlocked, and it can stay with you for as long as you like.
I never keep my records from version to version, but it doesn't matter much anyway since it's quite easy to unlock everything within a few (successful) playthroughs, which shouldn't take more than a few hours. For beginners this isn't as easy to do, but they can keep their records from previous versions if they want everything unlocked as it was before. It's not like there are radical changes to the gameplay with the challenge modes: at most the Angel of Pacifism and 100 could appeal to different types of players, but I highly doubt they'd be any good at them unless they could handle the normal game well enough first. (Other challenges modes, like Angel of Markmanship, Shottgunnery, Impatience, and Purity, can be imitated simply by limiting yourself manually.) The only other unlocks that would be annoying are assembly schematics, but if you're learned a good deal of them before then you can either head over to the Wiki (where they are fully documented) or boot up an old version, write down the recipes somewhere, and use that to make them.
Overall I'm not too concerned about unlocks, but I'm not sure that regular is a good person to ask. If beginners really hate it, I've yet to hear some complaints. (So this would be a place for to say it if they think that!)
--- Quote from: Darren Grey on September 21, 2011, 08:17 ---And the interface could do with a bit of work too, in my opinion, just to streamline the gameplay a little more. 1)Mouse support is not particularly hard to implement in FreePascal, and I think it could add a tonne to how quick the game plays. Left click move, right click fire, middle click reload - damned fiends can get blasted back to hell without me having to glance at my keyboard! 2)Inventory should perhaps be looked at - stack all ammo together, reduce inven size, and combine the inventory and eq screens so you can compare things easier. Or just add an equipment comparison box in the inventory screen. 3)Change the modified description on items to just "mod" so it doesn't cut off on the right. Lots of other little tweaks can be made to make playing the game that bit more pleasant.
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1) Mouse support sounds...awkward. The non-movement makes sense, but moving would either have to be done step-by-step (which is a PAIN for a mouse) or uses auto-run, which could be very disorienting. Note that a lot of movement in DoomRL isn't just going from place to place, as there is plenty of tactical maneuvering involved, and using the mouse for these careful actions may not be ideal (in the same way that trying to play the original with the mouse was extremely awkward for strafing/turning). One thing we could likely attempt to emphasize is the run-mode button, which lets you speed off in a given direction: this can significantly affect the game's pace (in a good way) if used properly. I actually set up my run button for numpad5 (using the numpad for movement) and it allows for a very streamlined usage.
2) The ammo-stack and inventory sizes are actually a part of game strategy, so I'm not too keen to change them for the sake of improving UI. Admittedly it's a little clunky, but you get fairly used to it (in the same way you get used to other game's inventories...at least here the inventory is strictly limited to a single page).
3)This is a definite improvement without real drawbacks, so I see no reason not to do it. (At least, I think people will realize that "mod" stands for "modified" when it shows up that way in-game.)
Really though, any suggestions you have, any at all, should be posted without delay. I agree that there are a lot of really tiny flaws here and there that, when collectively fixed, could remarkably decrease UI distractions from the gameplay. Usually they're either so rare or so small that I forget to post when I think of it and forget, but they are no less important than the other things that are changed over time.
Darren Grey:
Unlocks: I think a couple of hours to get numerous unlocks is too much, and having to fiddle with files to keep your unlocks is a fair bit of hassle.
Regarding getting assembly mechanics from the wiki, I think this is pretty bad game design myself. You shouldn't have to spoil yourself to get access to such content. Especially in such a relatively light game which is otherwise very transparent in its mechanics. In general the modding system is pretty opaque for new players and could do with a bit better in-game explanation.
Mouse movement I can understand not being perfect - in general keyboard is faster and more accurate. However it does help new players adjust in. I mostly suggest mouse support for aiming though, as I think it can be preferable in many circumstances. Having both movement and targeting (with movement done well - it can be done well) also has the advantage of being able to play one-handed, enjoying a lovely cup of tea in the other hand as you slaughter your way through the depths of hell.
Inventory size limit is part of the tactics, but amount of ammo doesn't seem to be (at least in the current version). Lessen ammo space and lessen inventory size wouldn't change the game much from its current balance. Though I defer to more experienced players' opinions on this matter!
I mentioned on the podcast that I was surprised to see little emphasis on UI and polish in the Requests subforum. Perhaps this is something for the community in general to consider when playing. I think that maximising the number of people that can enjoy the game is important, and core to that is making it easy to get into.
Malek Deneith:
Regarding assemblies - aside from dumb luck or spoiling yourself there is also in-game mechanic that lets you learn assemblies. Namely after beating the monster released by lever in Armory special level you get a schematics powerup that teaches you one assembly you don't currently know.
Darren Grey:
Uh, but surely you have to be spoiled to even know that? Y'know I wouldn't mind if the assemblies were randomised each game and there were more ways to find combos (as well as trial and error of course). But I'm guessing that as is *every* player consults the wiki for assemblies, apart from the few they know off by heart due to experience. It's a bit like if Nethack's potions had the same unided description every game.
Game Hunter:
--- Quote from: Darren Grey on September 22, 2011, 03:38 ---Unlocks: I think a couple of hours to get numerous unlocks is too much, and having to fiddle with files to keep your unlocks is a fair bit of hassle.
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Ideally this problem will be solved once we establish a server that can keep track of players who connect to it while playing the game. The server is actually THERE, so it's now a matter of setting it up and adding the necessary sofware-based infrastructure. This will also be a place to quickly find and use modules.
Unlocks (at least as they are known here) will probably be gone in DRL2's classic mode, which will let you pick just about any combination. Talking about it HERE is moot, I know. I suppose I don't see a reason to keep them around, but I personally enjoyed having to work for additional options.
--- Quote from: Darren Grey on September 22, 2011, 03:38 ---Regarding getting assembly mechanics from the wiki, I think this is pretty bad game design myself. You shouldn't have to spoil yourself to get access to such content. Especially in such a relatively light game which is otherwise very transparent in its mechanics. In general the modding system is pretty opaque for new players and could do with a bit better in-game explanation.
...I wouldn't mind if the assemblies were randomised each game and there were more ways to find combos (as well as trial and error of course). But I'm guessing that as is *every* player consults the wiki for assemblies, apart from the few they know off by heart due to experience. It's a bit like if Nethack's potions had the same unided description every game.
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Perhaps it's because I happen to be pretty good at this sort of thing, but I was able to learn nearly all of the basic assemblies without any prior knowledge by simply testing possibilities in a few games. The advanced and master assemblies are more likely to require Armory runs (where you can find "schematics") but those are really powerful anyway, so this is somewhat justified (in the same way that exotics and uniques are rare to come across). I believe the inspiration of assemblies came from Diablo II with its "rune words", and they work almost identically, the only real difference being that the player is locked out of some assemblies unless they have points in Whizkid.
That said, assemblies do stick out like a sore thumb in a game that, as I said previously, lays all its cards on the table. It may be a good idea to consider revising their principal functionality. (ID randomization for this game, however, is a huge no: being able to focus on adaptable tactics, rather than resources, is part of DoomRL's distinction and charm.)
Also, ammo amount is definitely part of the tactics, trust me. Running out is VERY possible on harder difficulties, since it's easy to run through a few stacks on a single level without being able to replenish it. A lot of the late-game frustration is caused by running out of your ammo of choice, even if you end up well-stocked early on. Overall I'd like to see a more uniform distribution of ammunition, such that you have to worry about its usage, but not the bad luck of five floors in a row without restocking.
I'll defer significant UI changes to the development team, as I personally have no qualms with the system as-is. Mouse movement sounds interesting enough to consider, though I don't know if they'll want to take the time to add it when there's so many other things to work on.
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