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Author Topic: How to make AliensRL fun  (Read 17319 times)

bgrunge

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2011, 16:45 »

Also creators of the better worlds, Weyland-Yutani Corp.

No, they were genuinely clueless in alien and aliens. Remember, they were investigating a signal in alien, but what that signal was was unknown. In aliens, the execs have no idea what happened 75 years ago; they didnt get the memo about a company order to investigate a signal, and they arent interested in looking one up, since it makes them liable. Burke acted on his own when he sent the colonists out to explore the crash site.
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skarczew

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2011, 12:26 »

I haven't watched the movies for a long time ...but from what I remember:

In Alien:
Ash has been ordered to return the Alien to the Nostromo's corporate employers even at the expense of the crew's lives. He did not decide to do it on his own.

Aliens:
Burke, who ordered the colonists to investigate the derelict spaceship where the Nostromo crew first encountered the Alien eggs, knew about alien and planned to get it to company laboratories where he can profit from their use as biological weapons.
It does not seem to me that he acted on his own.
Ripley's report about alien, events on Nostromo, its destruction, must have been known to high W-Y authorities and thats the way Burke learned about it and reason why he contacted her.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 12:27 by skarczew »
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bgrunge

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2011, 15:04 »

I haven't watched the movies for a long time ...but from what I remember:

In Alien:
Ash has been ordered to return the Alien to the Nostromo's corporate employers even at the expense of the crew's lives. He did not decide to do it on his own.

Aliens:
Burke, who ordered the colonists to investigate the derelict spaceship where the Nostromo crew first encountered the Alien eggs, knew about alien and planned to get it to company laboratories where he can profit from their use as biological weapons.
It does not seem to me that he acted on his own.
Ripley's report about alien, events on Nostromo, its destruction, must have been known to high W-Y authorities and thats the way Burke learned about it and reason why he contacted her.

Ash WAS ordered to do that, but that does not mean the company knew about the alien before it was discovered. He had either talked to them without Dallas's authorization after recovery of the specimen, OR there was a standing order to bring back new discovered lifeforms.

Burke was Ripley's corporate contact regarding the hearings over her actions in scuttling the ship in Alien. He was present for her deposition; thats how he knew about the aliens. Whereas the rest of the panel blew it off as crazy talk, burke took initiative and told the colonists to check out her story, but PRIVATELY. He admits as much when ripley confronts him: She says something like "Directive, signed Burke, Carter J. You sent them out there, and you didint even WARN them! Why didn't you warn them Burke?" Where he says, "Ok, look, what if that ship didnt even exist; alright, you think about that? I didnt know. So you make a major security situation out of it, and then everybody steps in, administrative steps in, and there is no exclusive rights for anybody. Nobody wins! I made a decision, and it was wrong, it was a bad call, ripley, a bad call."

Pretty clearly illustrates that he was acting independently.
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skarczew

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2011, 15:54 »

Sounds quite probable :) . Still, for some reason, I do not trust Burke at all. It won't be the first time when he says something and thinks exactly opposite.
Quote
Ripley: Just tell me one thing, Burke. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Burke: That's the plan. You have my word on it.
Ripley: All right, I'm in.
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bgrunge

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2011, 06:10 »

agreed, but you have to consider motive. He had no motive to lie and take responsibility himself. In fact, he had more motive to try and displace responsibility onto weyland/yutani, since it would have made him seem less personally culpable. (the whole "just following orders" thing) The fact that he doesnt do that, but instead admits what happened, is probably him just finally cracking under the stress of the situation. Tipping the facehuggers over after that was probably an extension of that; a desperate move made by a desperate man. And hed only have reason to be that desperate if he was, indeed, solely responsible.
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Jovian

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2011, 09:10 »

Howdy, I've just joined and thought I'd add some ideas:

1. Randomise the layout of the towers. I think this would be fairly easy to implement. Just imagine, with this you could play through a game with a more civilian bent (two civilian towers, some kind of recreation tower), a mining colony (massive central storage tower, mining equipment) or a research station (overall scientific theme).

2. The inclusion of "fresh meat", weak, frankly dim allies which you'd begin the game with; their sole purpose is to get snatched in order to buy you time during the beginning phase.

3. Expanded classes, which aren't designed to be balanced, there would be achievements just for completing the game as each class since each one would be a mode unto itself.
I'm thinking:
Marine
Heavy Weapons Specialist
Scout
Medic
Technician
-
Android = A synthetic robot that looks exactly like a human. Since their creation is, I imagine, expensive as Hell, it makes sense they'd be owned by a big corporation, making each one designed for their most obvious use, special operations and recon. They would be much more durable than a human, with a stealthy skill set, but wouldn't be over the top in power.

Worker = An all rounder, begins with some handy tool and decent body armour, all skill costs are average. Since they are native to the tower, they would likely have more fresh meat with them than the other classes, further, they might even be competent to a point.

Prisoner = Begins with very little, but is an uncompromising badass that levels quicker than the other classes. Any fresh meat hanging around the Prisoner would be disloyal, if not outright violent. Choosing this class would obviously generate a prison area of which to escape from.

Scientist = The living opposite of the Worker, they would be able to "research" the aliens in order to better combat them as well as having a "high clearance rating" which allows them to enter sealed areas and get free stuff from wall vendors. They might also be able to convince people to work for them, running on the movie trope that people listen to scientists.

4. Alternate Goals:
1. Kill the Queen.
2. Escape in a ship. Requires others to help man it, a weak victory. May involve a time limit or combat against marines defending it as the place is on lock-down.
3. Rig up a communications station and contact some government body that will send marines to save you...or nuke you from orbit. Bad ending.
4. Escape the towers. Travel beyond the tower in an astronaut suit in a buggy. A fade to black style ending, alluding that this is just a prolonged suicide. Plus it might mean you've let the aliens out into the wilder reaches of the planet.
5. Destroy whatever makes the oxygen (and possibly gravity?) of the towers, killing everything. Another bad ending.

I think, while not exactly missions, would add a lot to the game.

Thats my lot for now, cheers!
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 19:10 »

BTW, in case anyone wonders, work on the next version is seriously underway, so this topic is quite hot for me!
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Kornel Kisielewicz

skarczew

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« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 10:52 by skarczew »
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Jovian

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2011, 11:04 »

BTW, in case anyone wonders, work on the next version is seriously underway, so this topic is quite hot for me!

Great! Hope it's going well for ya Kornel.

I was just thinking about allies, and while proper A.I may be difficult, if there was a series of "mindsets", that each one could possibly have, it might give the illusion of personalities, for instance:

Joe - Wanders around waiting to get snatched. Returns to the main group regularly.
Scavenger - Picks up random items, not including, or less likely, ammunition and med kits. If items can be taken from them, picking up ammo could actually be useful. Travels some distance from the player, often the first to die, as greedy people die first in horror.

Coward - Struggles to move from safe areas, then rushes to the side of the player after a time. Runs from aliens. Will become disloyal when presented with a more powerful group, such as marines or corporative officials.
Innocent - Travels near the player when possible. Hides during combat, but will attack if the player is taking excessive damage.

Butch - Travel ahead of the player, in a supposed leadership. Relatively brave, maybe to the point of getting killed because he thinks he can stand still and shoot the aliens down with a pistol.
Veteran - Travels fairly near, at the right, left or behind the player. Takes pot shots at the aliens whilst moving backwards or to the side. Occasionally wanders off to pick up ammo.

Backstabber - Disloyal from the start, will leave the player of his own accord or join another group when possible.
Psychopath - May act as a veteran for a time, but there is always a chance he could flip and try to kill the player and his allies. He might have a tick of standing behind the player more often before he goes crazy.
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skarczew

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2011, 16:37 »

3. Expanded classes, which aren't designed to be balanced, there would be achievements just for completing the game as each class since each one would be a mode unto itself.
(...)
Android = A synthetic robot that looks exactly like a human. Since their creation is, I imagine, expensive as Hell, it makes sense they'd be owned by a big corporation, making each one designed for their most obvious use, special operations and recon. They would be much more durable than a human, with a stealthy skill set, but wouldn't be over the top in power.
Wrong way. Androids should act as a different race, as they could do different tasks (soldier, medic, etc) while still being an android.
I once saw some approach, that androids were better than humans in almost everything - except for the fact they could not be healed once damaged (or it was very hard/expensive).
The only "stealthy" thing that androids had in AvP games was the fact they did not emit pheromones like the humans, thus making them somehow invisible for aliens in darkness.

Worker = An all rounder, begins with some handy tool and decent body armour, all skill costs are average. Since they are native to the tower, they would likely have more fresh meat with them than the other classes, further, they might even be competent to a point.
How is worker different from technician?

Prisoner = Begins with very little, but is an uncompromising badass that levels quicker than the other classes. Any fresh meat hanging around the Prisoner would be disloyal, if not outright violent. Choosing this class would obviously generate a prison area of which to escape from.
This is some kind of "flavour" and not a real class, imo... A prisoner may have been a soldier, technician, civilian, etc in the past.

2. Escape in a ship. Requires others to help man it, a weak victory. May involve a time limit or combat against marines defending it as the place is on lock-down.
First, you would need to contact someone to send a dropship to you, and that is almost the same as:
3. Rig up a communications station and contact some government body that will send marines to save you...or nuke you from orbit. Bad ending.
Actually, they may send marines, but that may not end the game - you still would have to do some work there (kill marines and escape with a dropship - if you can fly; or end the game in another way).

4. Escape the towers. Travel beyond the tower in an astronaut suit in a buggy. A fade to black style ending, alluding that this is just a prolonged suicide. Plus it might mean you've let the aliens out into the wilder reaches of the planet.
Too easy and available from the start. Sounds similar to committing suicide with grenades :P . Noooo ...

5. Destroy whatever makes the oxygen (and possibly gravity?) of the towers, killing everything. Another bad ending.
For gravity, it would be needed to have Death Star, Mass Shadow Generator, Hyperspace tractor beam, Galaxy Gun, or sth similar :P . Gravity is a phenomenon created by object as big a planet, and not simply by some strange machinery.

When it comes to oxygen, it depends on whether the oxygen is available outside the towers - or not. Another factor is that whether aliens can live without it or not ...
Destroying oxygen in the towers is fairly easy, but if it is available outside the colony, then you would need weapon capable of destroying the surface (at least) of the planet. This may be really hard to obtain ...
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 16:45 by skarczew »
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Jovian

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2011, 03:49 »

For classes I was just thinking for ease of adding it to the game really, and it is a game, which is why I went for archetypes rather than race and background variants. An android may be able to do anything a person can, but as an archetype they're durable, intelligent and sneaky. A prisoner can range from conman to tax avoider, but we picture them as bald, muscular guys, with serious anger management issues. Get it?

Oh and the workers would be "ice road truckers" or "black lunged miners" rather than having anything to do with being technical. They'd be kitted out with industrial drills and chainsaws and cut through doors rather than hacking into their system.

I realise gravity is created by the planet, but since I'm not sure what sort of planet the towers are on, it could easily have low or even high gravity.

As for oxygen, maybe the aliens can survive without it, nothing like a bleak ending to go with the bad ones!

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skarczew

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2011, 04:55 »

For classes I was just thinking for ease of adding it to the game really, and it is a game, which is why I went for archetypes rather than race and background variants. An android may be able to do anything a person can, but as an archetype they're durable, intelligent and sneaky.
Durable - yes. Intelligent - depends. I saw specialists / engineers in the movies and I saw regular hitmen in the games (AvP2, AvP3). Sneaky - depends. Bulky hitmen won't be sneaky - and I did not see any "sneaky assassin android" in the movies / games.
But it is still possible for me that the background for "Marine / HW Specialist / Healer / etc" can be an android. Just treat it s a "Race" :) .

A prisoner can range from conman to tax avoider, but we picture them as bald, muscular guys, with serious anger management issues. Get it?
Now, read the background story behind the game ...If I had to "solve problems in a colony on some remote planet", then I would not be sending a team of armed "prisoners with anger management issues".

Oh and the workers would be "ice road truckers" or "black lunged miners" rather than having anything to do with being technical. They'd be kitted out with industrial drills and chainsaws and cut through doors rather than hacking into their system.
Those guys could be living in a colony, but they do not fit in "rescue team" too much (same as prisoners). And I am not sure about usefulness of chainsaws against metal doors :/ . Blowtorch is much more better =) .
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Jovian

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2012, 11:19 »

Wait wait

I got it

roller skates.
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Gamer-man

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2012, 01:38 »

Am i the only one who heard "AliensRL" and thought back to the Aliens theme where people are setting up turrets and guarding hallways to survive?  I always thought the game would be, rather than an extermination mission, a survive as long as possible mission, to give it a feel more like the movie aliens where there was no chance of defeating all of them, they were just trying to hold on as long as possible.  I always thought a couple of human encampments in a building complex and you are traveling between them getting supplies, and keeping the encampments alive, with each wave getting stronger and stronger until you can't hold out anymore.
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zchris13

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Re: How to make AliensRL fun
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2012, 13:20 »

I don't know how well that would play out as a roguelike.
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