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Author Topic: [N!|AoMr|72%|YAVP] Who needs guns? Guns are for wusses! (Marksman Diamond)  (Read 6265 times)

Tormuse

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So, Angel of Marksmanship lets you use two weapons, pistols and your fists...  Since the Marksman Diamond denies you the opportunity to upgrade your pistol ability, I decided to work on the fists.  :)  (And considering I got Demonic Diamond recently, this was actually easier!)

My strategy was the same that I used for Demonic Diamond, (except that I was free to occasionally shoot people if I felt like it)  :)  get to the Chained Court as soon as possible and make those berserks last as long as possible and then farm Pain Elementals for health once I got Vampyre trait.

One story from this game I have to relate:

The most tense moment was at the end of level 11, because my berserk ran out and I was out of med-packs and armour and I hadn't gotten Vampyre yet.  (Level 5 with 99% of the way to level 6!)  :|  I found myself caught between an Arch-Vile in one direction and a Commando in the other.  Given that choice, I ran toward the Commando, side-stepping repeatedly to dodge as much of his fire as I could, and then just as I spotted the stairs, a freakin' Arachnotron came into view and I was getting plasma barrages from two different directions!  When I was 1 square away from the stairs, I was at 5% health and I stared at the screen for a long moment and said to myself, "There's no way I'm going to survive that last step..." but I must have been channeling Jules from Pulp Fiction because I took that last step and two barrages of plasma fire missed me completely!  :o

I went downstairs to level 12 and my hopes died again because I started surrounded by sergeants, imps, a couple of Hell Knights, and a commando.  So, I did the only thing I could do:  Punch out an imp to bring myself up to level 6 and get Vampyre trait and quickly run around the corner into an alcove out of their view which was luckily empty except for a former human who I punched out too.  The commando followed me, so I corner-shot him almost to death and finished him off with my fist.  I then stood there for quite some time between the commando, former human, and imp, knocking them down any time one of them got up and slowly got my health back.  Things briefly got tense again when another imp came around the corner and destroyed the former human and commando bodies, but I was able to lure the imp over, along with one of his buddies, and soon I had 3 imp bodies safely tucked away out of anyone's view and I could punch them out to my heart's content any time any of them got up.  Once I had enough health to make me confident enough and I was zerking again, I charged out, found the stairs, and the rest is history.  :)

So, that's it!  God Hand skill rank!  WOO!  :D  I can still remember when I first discovered this game almost a year ago and Diamond Badges seemed impossible.  (Win Nightmare difficulty with only your fists?  How ridiculous!  No one could do that!)  :P  I'm hoping I can be an inspiration to people to show that it really is possible!  Once you realize you have the ability, you might as well aim high.  :)

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.9.4) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Tormuse, level 11 Arch-Vile Blade Marine,
 defeated the Cyberdemon on level 25 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 51868 turns and scored 442436 points.
 He played for 1 hour, 32 minutes and 22 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 1397 out of 1936 hellspawn. (72%)
 He was an Angel of Marksmanship!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 10
  Levels visited   : 3
  Levels completed : 1

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Marksman Platinum Badge
  Marksman Gold Badge
  Marksman Silver Badge
  Marksman Diamond Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  .......................................###......###........
  ...........###.........................###......###....###.
  ...........###.........................###......###....###.
  ...........###.................|.......................###.
  ..##..........................X||..........................
  ..#.#............###......#.....}..........................
  ..###............###.......##..............................
  .................###......###..............................
  ...........................................................
  .....................................................###...
  .....###.............................................###...
  .....###..............................###............###...
  .....###..###.........................###..................
  ..........###.........................###..................
  ..........###..............................................
  ...........................................................
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 116/90   Experience 58302/11
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +9

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Ironman          (Level 3)
    Tough as nails   (Level 2)
    Brute            (Level 3)
    Berserker        (Level 1)
    Badass           (Level 1)
    Vampyre          (Level 1)

  Bru->Bru->Ber->Bru->Bad->MVm->TaN->TaN->Iro->Iro->Iro->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   gothic armor [6/6] (165%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   speedloader pistol (2d4) [5/6]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   modified steel boots [1/1] (96%) (A)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   pistol (2d4) [6/6]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a]   green armor [1/1] (100%)
    [b]   green armor [1/1] (100%)
    [c]   blue armor [2/2] (100%)
    [d]   modified red armor [4/4] (100%) (A)
    [e]   modified red armor [3/6] (46%) (P)
    [f]   bullet-proof vest [1/1] (100%)
    [g]   10mm ammo (x100)
    [h]   10mm ammo (x100)
    [i]   10mm ammo (x100)
    [j]   10mm ammo (x100)
    [k]   10mm ammo (x100)
    [l]   small med-pack
    [m]   small med-pack
    [n]   small med-pack
    [o]   large med-pack
    [p]   phase device
    [q]   envirosuit pack
    [r]   envirosuit pack
    [s]   power mod pack
    [t]   bulk mod pack
    [u]   shockwave pack
    [v]   shockwave pack

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 0%    torso 95%   feet 60% 
    Melee      - internal 0%    torso 95%   feet 60% 
    Shrapnel   - internal 0%    torso 95%   feet 60% 
    Acid       - internal 0%    torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Fire       - internal 0%    torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Plasma     - internal 0%    torso 60%   feet 60% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    60 former humans
    69 former sergeants
    39 former captains
    114 imps
    70 demons
    892 lost souls
    19 cacodemons
    25 barons of hell
    1 Cyberdemon
    15 hell knights
    12 arachnotrons
    7 former commandos
    1 Angel of Death
    11 pain elementals
    9 arch-viles
    16 mancubi
    9 revenants
    18 nightmare imps
    2 nightmare cacodemons
    8 nightmare demons

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  Entering level 4 he was almost dead...
  On level 4 he stormed the Chained Court.
  He left level 6 as soon as possible.
  On level 10 he entered Hell's Armory.
  He left the Armory without drawing too much attention.
  Entering level 12 he was almost dead...
  On level 15 he encountered the Phobos Hellgate.
  On level 16 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
  He then destroyed the Unholy Cathedral!
  On level 18 he assembled a speedloader pistol!
  Then at last he found Phobos Arena!
  On level 25 he finally defeated the Cyberdemon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You are hit! You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You're going berserk! The Cyberdemon reloads his
 rocket launcher. You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You are hit! You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You're going berserk! The Cyberdemon reloads his
 rocket launcher. You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. You are hit! You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon reloads his rocket launcher. You
 need to taste blood!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon dies. Congratulations! You defeated
 the Cyberdemon! Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 484 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 412 of those were killed.
 27 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 17 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 28 souls destroyed the Cyberdemon...
 6 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 22 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

And yes, that's right, I punched out the Angel of Death with my bare hands.  Just call me Tormuse, Diamond Fist.  ;)
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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OMG O.o.
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...And here we are, watching how the very history of the DoomRL is written...
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thelaptop

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OMFG...
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Tormuse

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Erm...  Has anyone ever achieved God Hand rank before?
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thelaptop

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Erm...  Has anyone ever achieved God Hand rank before?
That is besides the point.

Marksmanship Diamond was never successful before because people said it involved an impossible strategy.

You, sir, have done the impossible.

Multiple times.

'nuff said.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 18:13 by thelaptop »
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Tormuse

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Ah, thanks!  :)  Well, in that case, I guess I should outline my strategy a bit more...

Getting Vampyre trait is the key to victory; once you get that, the rest becomes fairly easy...ish...  ;)  For the first few levels, I just headed straight for the stairs and left most of my enemies alive.  Chained Court is a huge boon for all the berserk packs; it's the best way to accumulate enough experience to get Vampyre, and/or go down enough stairs until Invulnerability globes start spawning.

Once I had Vampyre, any level that had at least one Pain Elemental got cleared out.  I would use the lost souls to regenerate my health and charge up my berserk power, then I would go on a berserk rampage, punching out as much as I could until either my berserk ran out, or my health got too low and then I would return to the Pain Elemental and repeat.  Corpses could be removed by standing over them and letting enemies with splash damage hit me.  When I was ready to leave the level, I would lure the Pain Elemental over to the stairs, kill it, and get myself zerked up for the next level.

Another tactic I used a few times was to corner-shoot at enemies to attract their attention and lure them into an isolated and vulnerable position.  I got imps, Barons, Knights, and at one point, a Mancubus, this way without even being berserk.  (It was something I couldn't do during my Demonic Diamond game, so it made this run easier)
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gilgatex

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I'm seeing a lot of these types of reports.  It makes me think that vampyre is a little overpowered.

Edit: I'm still VERY impressed with the God Hand rank.  You have 15 more diamonds than I do, and that's just crazy :D
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 19:30 by gilgatex »
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Tormuse

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Nooooo!  Don't take my Vampyre away!  :P  (Thanks for the praise, though)  :)

Also, I'd just like to say that I would never have discovered DoomRL if not for a link from Curly's World of Freeware.  (Someone suggested I plug the site and it's non-profit, so I think it's okay)  Some of the links there seem to be broken lately, but there are a lot of great games freely available there for anyone who has some time to kill.  :)
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ParaSait

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Okay, that's it. I'm convinced.

TORMUSE = SATAN

Edit: I wonder will you try getting ALL the badges now? :P
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 09:00 by ParaSait »
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i wish there was an image macro that describes how unbelievably ridiculously awesome this is
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gilgatex

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I don't suppose you'd be willing to record one of your games for us newbies to watch and learn, eh?
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Holy shit! O_O
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Take a look to the sky just before you die it's the last time he will!!!

Tormuse

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I don't suppose you'd be willing to record one of your games for us newbies to watch and learn, eh?

I'd be willing if I could figure out a way to do it reliably.  Roguelike Studio is giving me trouble, but I'll see what I can do.
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Camstudio?
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Link?
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GrimmC

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Firstly, congrats sir! Well, well done. What's the total elapsed time on your DoomRL file, if you don't mind me asking?

I think this raises a couple of interesting points. Number one, should Marksman Diamond be revised? The strategy clearly doesn't revolve around pistols at all. Tormuse basically said it wasn't any different from Demonic Diamond, perhaps even slightly easier. Does this really impart the spirit of AoM?

Number two, perhaps Berserker and Vampyre should be revised. I like the idea behind them, and I think they're fair in theory--certainly in a AoB run. But when you also have the ability to destroy enemies from a distance in a hybrid build, it does tend to make the game a bit easy...My HNTR Vampyre build was certainly the easiest run I ever did.

Moreover, the fact that it turns Pain Elementals into roving berserk/health stations certainly is a bit much. On the other hand, could argue that this is the possibility you always have in Nightmare!, ala the way Tormuse saved himself earlier. Perhaps we should move discussion to another thread?

But most important, CONGRATS dude.
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I think this raises a couple of interesting points. Number one, should Marksman Diamond be revised? The strategy clearly doesn't revolve around pistols at all. Tormuse basically said it wasn't any different from Demonic Diamond, perhaps even slightly easier. Does this really impart the spirit of AoM(r)?
I don't think it's so much a problem with Marksman Diamond as it is that a fist-only run is somehow easier. Fist-only wins should be among the hardest challenges in the game and playing them should be akin to a Pacifism run without the free leveling and nuke (or at least past ITYTD). That said, however, the current requirements for Marksman Diamond are a little ridiculous in the context of a pistol build, so it'll be given more thought in the next release.

Number two, perhaps Berserker and Vampyre should be revised. I like the idea behind them, and I think they're fair in theory--certainly in a AoB run. But when you also have the ability to destroy enemies from a distance in a hybrid build, it does tend to make the game a bit easy...My HNTR Vampyre build was certainly the easiest run I ever did.
Although it's been nerfed a little bit in terms of benefits, zerking is still the same on-off switch that it ever was: add to the fact that it is consistently easier to activate it with Berserker and it's pretty obvious that it is a really strong trait-effect combination, much more so than other combinations. The berserk-related changes were added to 0.9.9.4 at relatively the last minute, and I believe that there are already ideas regarding some more tweaking.

In my opinion, a melee build should be among the hardest out there, in a game where practically all of the fighting is done at a distance. We'll see where it ends up.

Moreover, the fact that it turns Pain Elementals into roving berserk/health stations certainly is a bit much. On the other hand, could argue that this is the possibility you always have in Nightmare!, ala the way Tormuse saved himself earlier. Perhaps we should move discussion to another thread?
It could be as simple as making it so that enemies without experience don't grant benefits such as the ones from Vampyre. (If you prefer to start a thread about it, by my guest.)

Anyway, this is pretty awesome and all but it's really just another Demonic Diamond. When I see someone do this relying ONLY on the pistol, I'll be uniquely impressed.
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Tormuse

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For what it's worth, melee builds are still quite challenging.  Maybe I'm making it look too easy, but this build took me 43 tries to get it right, in which most of them, I died in the first few levels.  The issue I have with Marksman Diamond is that taking away SoG totally cripples any pistol build.  Maybe Marksman Diamond could be changed to "Win Nightmare without using Master Traits?"  (Just a thought)

http://camstudio.org/

Cool, thanks!  I'll look into that.  :)

...but it's really just another Demonic Diamond...

LOL!  I love the fact that Demonic Diamond became passé so quickly!  :D
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...but it's really just another Demonic Diamond...
LOL!  I love the fact that Demonic Diamond became passé so quickly!  :D
The Demonic Diamond all by itself is probably the most impressive thing that's ever come out of a player. Whether or not the game's gotten to the point where a fist-only Nightmare! run is possible and/or "easy" (and I use that VERY loosely, thinking back to the old 0.9.9.0 Diamond standards), it's a ridiculous achievement nonetheless. But suppose I came in and made a post about getting, I dunno, Inquisitor Diamond, and then I made a second post with what would be another Inquisitor Diamond (assuming it was possible to get them more than once) using the same method and strategy and stuff. The first Inquisitor Diamond is a "holy crap this is awesome" while the second one is more of a "holy crap this build is consistent". That's the vibe I get from this run. Had you done this successfully with even a unique pistol like the Trigun, I'd have been more excited about it.

But hell, I'm just an old coot that's past his prime recanting "the old days", too busy to attempt Diamonds 'cause I'm investing all my DoomRL time in the wiki and modules. This guy Tormuse is the new Blade, so treat him with all due respect.

By the way, I use CamStudio for my videos. I HIGHLY recommend picking up the CamStudio Lossless Codec (should be at the same website), as it's exactly what it says on the tin.
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Quote
Maybe Marksman Diamond could be changed to "Win Nightmare without using Master Traits?"  (Just a thought)
If only I were still good at this game...

Actually, setting Marksman Diamond to be "Clear N! AoMr without Master Traits" would give me reason to experiment again...
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Tormuse

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Or perhaps the Diamond could simply be "Win Nightmare as Explorer?"

LOL!  I love the fact that Demonic Diamond became passé so quickly!  :D
The Demonic Diamond all by itself is probably the most impressive thing that's ever come out of a player. Whether or not the game's gotten to the point where a fist-only Nightmare! run is possible and/or "easy" (and I use that VERY loosely, thinking back to the old 0.9.9.0 Diamond standards), it's a ridiculous achievement nonetheless. But suppose I came in and made a post about getting, I dunno, Inquisitor Diamond, and then I made a second post with what would be another Inquisitor Diamond (assuming it was possible to get them more than once) using the same method and strategy and stuff. The first Inquisitor Diamond is a "holy crap this is awesome" while the second one is more of a "holy crap this build is consistent". That's the vibe I get from this run. Had you done this successfully with even a unique pistol like the Trigun, I'd have been more excited about it.

@Game Hunter, I understand...  I still think it was a funny phrase to use, though.  :)  As for Camstudio, I'll definitely give it a try soon.  I'm in the middle of a run now that's been going since yesterday, but I'll try it out afterward.
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In my opinion, a melee build should be among the hardest out there, in a game where practically all of the fighting is done at a distance.
Heh, I found it much easier to get Sunrise Iron Fist, Malicious Knives Cross and Pacifism Gold than getting Marksman Silver and I didn't even do any 'lost soul farming'....
Granted, I'm playing at HNTR and it could be that I'm just better at melee tactics.

But damn, that row of diamonds is just impressive!
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Hell Baron Captain (0.9.9.6)
[25/19/9/0/0] m:25 sp:54 as:38

raekuul

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Tormuse, the old No Master build and the current Explorer build are my two favorites.

Still, this would require me to legitimately achieve access to Nightmare, which is not happening any time soon.
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Tormuse doesn't lose, he dies on purpose to lull the demons into a false sense of security.

Tormuse

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Firstly, congrats sir! Well, well done. What's the total elapsed time on your DoomRL file, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't forget about this question; I just couldn't answer it because I was in the middle of a run at the time.  :)  Total game time for me for this version is 14 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes, and 9 seconds.  (Eek!  Have I really been playing it this much?  I only installed this a month and a half ago!)  :o  Of course, this isn't an accurate reflection of how much time I've spent sitting in front of my computer; I frequently get up to eat and do other things while the game is running, and some of the runs, (most notably, the Ao100 runs) I would leave the game on overnight, or leave it running while I go out for the day, so my actual game time is hard to say, but probably a few days at least.
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/24/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

Tormuse

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By the way, I use CamStudio for my videos. I HIGHLY recommend picking up the CamStudio Lossless Codec (should be at the same website), as it's exactly what it says on the tin.

I tried out Camstudio today.  The version 2.6 beta from the above link didn't work, but version 2.0 works quite well except that I don't seem to be able to record games in full-screen mode.  (I just get a recording of a blank screen)  Is there any way around that, or am I just going to have to get used to squinting at a window while I play?  :)

I also tried installing the Lossless codec as you suggested, but all three versions from the site failed to install with nothing more informative than the message, "Installation Failed."

I guess I'm going to have to get a Youtube account so I can post whatever I end up recording.  I'm thinking of going for Elite Platinum for my first recording.  It's tricky to accomplish without being *too* ambitious, and it'll be a good display of strategies I use.
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/24/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

rchandra

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I suspect you can't record actual console fullscreen, but you can enlarge the window.  (Assuming Windows) right-click on the doomrl shortcut and edit the properties.  in the font section, choose a larger size (I'm using Consolas 36-point font, and the window is around 70-80% of my monitor area - no squinting needed!).  You will probably have to choose a truetype font.
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0.995: Demon Ser. Major [ 15 5 3 0 0 ]

Tormuse

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Okay, that was simple enough to fix.  :)

Now, the sound recording is giving me trouble. :|  I've tried adjusting every setting I can find; the sound either comes out distorted during playback, or out of sync, or too quiet...  I was hoping to do a recording with a running audio commentary like in the videos Game Hunter posted, but I think I might just stick with a silent recording instead.  It's probably just as well; I just did a fifteen minute silent recording to test it and the file size came to almost 100 Megs!  (much bigger than I expected for no audio)  I typically take a few hours to play through the game, so I'll probably have to break that up into a few separate files.
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/24/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

Deathwind

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I always thought Game Hunter's vids were post commentary as he seems to comment on events before they occur.
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Game Hunter

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I always thought Game Hunter's vids were post commentary as he seems to comment on events before they occur.
My very two first videos were post-commentary but everything else has been live. If anything, my mic audio has a +200ms delay, so I probably say things slightly AFTER they happen. Or maybe I've just gotten to the point where I can start predicting these with decent accuracy.

Now, the sound recording is giving me trouble. :|
Well this seems like a weird place to start talking about recording stuff, but I can be quick about it.

If you want to input (record) two audio devices simultaneously, you need two audio input devices with which to do it, or potentially an audio card with multiple inputs. In my case, I do everything off my laptop, which has onboard with only a single input. In order to get around this problem I've used a USB audio device, which has its own driver and thus can act as a second input. Originally I used a USB headset, which was simple enough, but it didn't have a very good quality. Now I use a USB sound card and plug my analog headset into that, which works a lot better (as you can notice by comparing my tutorial videos and basically everything else).

Splicing the two audios together is another matter. Originally I recorded the two separate audio signals to two separate outputs: one to CamStudio directly and one to Audacity; at that point I edited them together with Audacity and then linked the audio and video together. Currently, I use a product called Virtual Audio Cable (VAC), which allows you to hook up multiple inputs virtually, which removes the need to edit (and saves a lot of time).

If you're having trouble making the audio sound good at all, make sure you're using a Stereo Mix or similar recording device (informally it's called What-U-Hear) that directly records your speaker/headphone output. There's also the matter of interlacing and stuff but CamStudio's default settings worked pretty well for me.

In a tl;dr sense, if you want a setup that works you'll probably need to spend a little money or a little time. I was lucky to have a USB sound card lying around, but VAC cost a bit (even though I'd say it was well worth it). I really wouldn't suggest uncommented videos, especially in a game like this, as it can quickly become boring for the viewer: try to at least add some post-production commentary. And yeah, the files get big, so record bit by bit (there's a program called VirtualDub that makes splicing painless: use "direct stream copy" to maintain the original video when you do).

If you want more questions, drop me a PM instead.
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I'm just a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.

Latest LPs: Angband, Delver

Bloax

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As for codecs, I'll go ahead and recommend using this as the video codec for YouTube.
x264 Is much better, but YT has "trouble" handling it.

As for audio, FAAC would be cool of course, but I'd just say that you should go ahead and use good "old" LAME MP3.
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Tormuse

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Thanks for the help, guys.  I'll be sure to use PMs if I have any more questions.

...if you want a setup that works you'll probably need to spend a little money or a little time...

That's what I figured...  I think I may have to put my plans for making videos on hold for now anyway.  The clinic where I had been working probationarily decided they don't need me any more, so time and money are tight for me these days.  I'd still like to make that Elite Platinum video I described above; maybe I'll do it for the next DoomRL version that comes out.  :)
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/24/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos
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