DRL > Discussion
A few mechanics questions and build discussion
HenWen:
Hi,
I recently started playing again after the .9.9.6 update - it is beautiful! The combination of mouse and tiles makes things easier. Great work.
How do ammo chains/boxes in the quickslot work? They seem to reduce reload time substantially - does anyone have an exact figure?
For armor / traits, which order are flat damage reduction and % reduction applied in?
The assault rifle assembly seems to have been changed to something more akin to the high power weapon schematic - something that works on any weapon. Does it set bullet dmg to 2d5 or is it a % increase on the previous bullet damage of the weapon? Does it reduce the # of shots fired per burst by 50% or a flat number? And the version I last played, it had a firing speed reduction to .8 - was this intentionally removed?
Some of the more subtle changes in the game I really like. The new AI that doesn't cluster around the center seems better, less predictable and hence creates greater tension. I like the MAc nerf and the general increase in ammo from ammo boxes, it makes non MAc non melee YAAM much more practical. The new assemblies seem pretty balanced and usable.
So far I have just played on HMP with technicians. I like the class system, but techs just seem much stronger than the other two classes for most purposes. The tracking maps, whizkid bonuses, and item use bonuses are so powerful. Of course, I have yet to try the other classes. I think I want to try scout next, but I am not used to an active defense / dodging style. Sure, its nice vs barons, but so many enemies fire multiple times per round or have non-dodgeable projectiles in the later levels. Anyone have some scout or marine class builds they can recommend?
bardysya:
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 18:43 ---So far I have just played on HMP with technicians. I like the class system, but techs just seem much stronger than the other two classes for most purposes. The tracking maps, whizkid bonuses, and item use bonuses are so powerful. Of course, I have yet to try the other classes. I think I want to try scout next, but I am not used to an active defense / dodging style. Sure, its nice vs barons, but so many enemies fire multiple times per round or have non-dodgeable projectiles in the later levels. Anyone have some scout or marine class builds they can recommend?
--- End quote ---
For marine build I advise build in ammochain or the Vampyre, because:
1) With ammochain you just can have a power battery with your plasmagun, or clear Spiders' Lair, and get infinite nuclaer plasma gun.
2) With Vampyre, you'll be able to regen almost withot using med-packs. Also, marines got 50(25) % bonus time for power-ups, so berserk or invulnerability would be quite long.
For scout build I advise Shottyhead and Gun Kata:
1) w/Shottyhead I had 0,2s attack speed with double shotgun, also I had juggler, that helped me very much. And you have hellrunner, which you can upgrade into Dodgemaster and Finesse - Whizkid.
2) w/Gun Kata you instantly reload your pistols after kill, then dodgemaster, also after succesful dodge you fire pistols almost no time, which helps you too.
So, choice is yours. I'm not saying how to play, I'm saying how I play.
shark20061:
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 18:43 ---How do ammo chains/boxes in the quickslot work? They seem to reduce reload time substantially - does anyone have an exact figure?
--- End quote ---
-80% reload time
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 18:43 ---For armor / traits, which order are flat damage reduction and % reduction applied in?
--- End quote ---
The resistance (% reduction) is applied first, then the protection is applied.
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 18:43 ---The assault rifle assembly seems to have been changed to something more akin to the high power weapon schematic - something that works on any weapon. Does it set bullet dmg to 2d5 or is it a % increase on the previous bullet damage of the weapon? Does it reduce the # of shots fired per burst by 50% or a flat number? And the version I last played, it had a firing speed reduction to .8 - was this intentionally removed?
--- End quote ---
Assault rifle can only be assembled from the chaingun. Damage is 2d5, it fires two shots that each cost 2 ammo (so it spends 4 ammo per volley). Firing speed is the normal 1.0s now.
Whoops, that did change some. Let me go find out what it is now...
OK, assault rifle assembly works on any rapid fire weapon (chainguns, plasma rifles, and exotic counterparts). The damage is +1 die, but -1 sides per die and 1/2 the shots (rounding up). So Laser Rifle (1d7)x5 becomes (2d6)x3, Chaingun (1d6)x4 becomes (2d5)x2. The part about shot cost stands, each shot uses 2 ammo. As compensation, reload time is cut in half, and the weapon has +2 accuracy. Firing speed is the same as the base weapon.
spacedust:
As a recent scout convert, I feel it is my duty to tell you that Int 2 is the bestest trait, and that having it automatically turns you into the terminator with x-ray vision. Who wouldn't want that?
HenWen:
Thanks for the comments all.
@ bardysya: I think I will have to try shottyhead. I have played the other builds. I am just a little bit concerned about the ammo consumption of shottyhead - the build seems to invite spamming the assault /combat shotgun at a distance to deal with tricky enemies, but shotgun shells don't go far at range. I will have to try the focused double shotgun for ammo efficiency.
@ shark - thanks for the detailed numbers. This could lead to some interesting possibilities - think assault minigun - (2d5) x 4, assault plasma rifle is an even more efficient version of the hyperblaster (2d4) x3 vs (2d6) x 3, assault nuclear plasma rifle is possibly the best though, since ammo conservation goes so far with that weapon, (2d5) x3. I will have to give these a try some time.
@ spacedust - I just completed a HMP run with a tech that went int2 after Mss. I will admit I felt pretty overpowered. Cleared the vaults without so much as a scratch. 5x SoG is just ludicrous - .1 firespeed. The thing is that I prefer getting int after traits that make my character more powerful at range, to make radar shooting more powerful. I guess even without radar shooting int2 can give you great tactical awareness.
More questions - are move speed bonuses the same as dodge bonuses? So does the scout start with an innate 20% dodge bonus? When you play dodging characters, do you go for tactical armor, intermediate armor, or the heaviest you can wear?
How often are shotgun builds forced to use other weapons to preserve ammo past the first 12-15 levels when fewer sergeants spawn? I would think that unless you went MAd ammo consumption would be a problem still, just like my previous AoSh runs. Do the new shell boxes make a big enough difference that this isn't the case?
My problem with shotgun characters is that, other than the BFG, other weapon categories tend to be of marginal use. Chainguns and plasma are so inaccurate as to be kinda worthless to shotgun users I think, and obviously pistols are worthless without SoG. Whereas with other weapon specializations, shotguns are very solid to conserve ammo and corner shoot without any talents allocated to them. Then again, maybe I should try using the assault versions! That would be the perfect chain fire weapon for an unskilled user. Another option might be the missile launcher - I just hate destroying valuable items with indiscriminate rocket fire. Any advice on conserving ammo with shotty builds?
Some more changes I have noticed:
On the first level, phobos surface, either the formers use healthpacks without any message appearing on my screen or fewer healthpacks spawn on some of the maps. In previous versions I could usually get to the healthpacks around the same time as the formers and shoot them so that they wouldn't pick them up. This has made starting out a little more difficult.
Another change is the absence of the combat shotgun on the early levels. I have beaten NM maybe once and UV maybe 4 times in previous versions, and the combat shotty was my savior in the early levels for almost any build. Corner shooting with a regular shotgun may be viable vs. cacodemons or formers, but a regular shotgun is just too weak vs. early barons of hell or arachnotrons. Any advice? I guess that this difficulty increase is balanced by the new class bonuses, so it all works out.
Finally, the new lost souls are much scarier. They seem significantly resistant to regular bullets, but NOT to shotguns. A shotgun seems to almost always one shot them at short-medium range, while they can absorb upwards of 15 straight bullet damage. Am I correct here? I thought bullet resistance was the same thing as shotgun resistance.
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