DRL > Discussion
A few mechanics questions and build discussion
ih8regin:
About lost souls - they've got 50% bullet resistance in some of the patches (0.9.9.5 IIRC) along with Revenants, that's why they are scary for a bullet shooter. And yes, a double shotty vs souls = a lot of blown up souls, if used at close range :)
Formers could use medpaks without a message appearing in case you don't see them doing that, say you knocked a former back out of visible range with a shotgun (AoS for example) and he used a medpak, you won't get the message. I have sometimes managed to hear the sound of them eating medpacks, a "woooom" like one, like when you take a powerup.
shark20061:
Let's see how much I can answer:
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 23:17 ---More questions - are move speed bonuses the same as dodge bonuses? So does the scout start with an innate 20% dodge bonus? When you play dodging characters, do you go for tactical armor, intermediate armor, or the heaviest you can wear?
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Move speed and dodge rate are not connected. They are two separate benefits. If you want dodge bonuses, you get them from three sources: Hellrunner trait (which specifically grants +15% dodge rate), Tactical Armor/Boots (they're identical, +10% dodge rate), and the Dodgemaster Advanced Trait (first dodge always works)
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 23:17 ---How often are shotgun builds forced to use other weapons to preserve ammo past the first 12-15 levels when fewer sergeants spawn? I would think that unless you went MAd ammo consumption would be a problem still, just like my previous AoSh runs. Do the new shell boxes make a big enough difference that this isn't the case?
My problem with shotgun characters is that, other than the BFG, other weapon categories tend to be of marginal use. Chainguns and plasma are so inaccurate as to be kinda worthless to shotgun users I think, and obviously pistols are worthless without SoG. Whereas with other weapon specializations, shotguns are very solid to conserve ammo and corner shoot without any talents allocated to them. Then again, maybe I should try using the assault versions! That would be the perfect chain fire weapon for an unskilled user. Another option might be the missile launcher - I just hate destroying valuable items with indiscriminate rocket fire. Any advice on conserving ammo with shotty builds?
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Shotgun ammo can be hard to come by later on, and while the shell boxes help a little, it's very easy to run out anyway if you don't take a bunch of stacks with you. Personally, when I do a shotgun build, I carry a backup (chaingun, rocket launcher, and/or plasma rifle), but ammo shouldn't be a huge problem unless you're doing Ao100. Accuracy isn't too much of an issue as long as you're firing at something you can see (and even if you can't, there's still a chance to hit), and agility mods are fairly easy to come by, especially if you do the special levels.
If you are running out of ammo for shotgun, and not doing Ao100, the two best places to get more ammo are Armory (guaranteed shell box, plus plenty of shells lying around), and Halls of Carnage (first section is chocked full of sergeants). Note that Armory isn't available on ITYTD.
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 23:17 ---On the first level, phobos surface, either the formers use healthpacks without any message appearing on my screen or fewer healthpacks spawn on some of the maps. In previous versions I could usually get to the healthpacks around the same time as the formers and shoot them so that they wouldn't pick them up. This has made starting out a little more difficult.
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There's no message if they use a health pack out of your line of sight, but you'll still hear the sound. Whether you can get the packs fast enough depends on what difficulty you're on and whether or not a former stumbles into the entry room. There's usually an enemy starting in that room on higher difficulties, which will make it tricky to get them before they take them and end up using it on themselves.
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 23:17 ---Another change is the absence of the combat shotgun on the early levels. I have beaten NM maybe once and UV maybe 4 times in previous versions, and the combat shotty was my savior in the early levels for almost any build. Corner shooting with a regular shotgun may be viable vs. cacodemons or formers, but a regular shotgun is just too weak vs. early barons of hell or arachnotrons. Any advice? I guess that this difficulty increase is balanced by the new class bonuses, so it all works out.
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Regular shotgun with SoB and Reloader (my usual first and second traits for a shotty build) tend to work pretty well. While the combat shotgun helps, it's really only good for the first 4 shots. Once you've emptied it, it's now a slightly weaker regular shotgun (unless you assemble something with it *coughcoughtacticalshotguncough* :P )
--- Quote from: HenWen on March 04, 2012, 23:17 ---Finally, the new lost souls are much scarier. They seem significantly resistant to regular bullets, but NOT to shotguns. A shotgun seems to almost always one shot them at short-medium range, while they can absorb upwards of 15 straight bullet damage. Am I correct here? I thought bullet resistance was the same thing as shotgun resistance.
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Lost Souls take half damage from bullets (and only 25% from fire). Bullet and Shrapnel (Shotgun) resistance are separate resistances.
AlterAsc:
--- Quote ---it's now a slightly weaker regular shotgun
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that's not exactly true.It does have less damage dices but it's blast is focused,so i'd still prefer it over basic shotgun.
--- Quote ---On the first level
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Tips:try using running tactics(you'll still be late though) and timing your attacks - formers have speed around 70%, so you can shoot twice and kill him before he gets chance to use medpack.Though it's just a theory, i'm too lazy to do it(all this counting) myself.
--- Quote ---Any advice on conserving ammo with shotty builds?
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Army of the Dead trait is the best solution.
Don't try to kill the enemy when he's far away.Elephant gun is the most efficient shotgun.I advice against trying for 100% kills(especially on higher difficulties) unless you have MAD.
--- Quote ---I thought bullet resistance was the same thing as shotgun resistance.
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No.Also you can see your resistances to each type of damage on equipment screen.
spacedust:
Agreed about elephant gun - hands down my favourite shotgun. For the price of PP you get the ultimate in terms of boomstick efficiency.
This may sound a little silly, but if you do a scout/shottyhead/int build, and you engage in corner shooting, wait for them to come closer before shooting them. You can see where exactly they are so just wait till they come real close. For example, when clearing the Vaults, if you see a pink asterisk further off, wait till it gets near (like 2 tiles away), then unload into its face. You get a lot more damage per shell that way. Arachs die really quickly when close up, but can take a lot of shells if you're shooting at the edge of vision.
ZicherCZ:
--- Quote from: spacedust on March 05, 2012, 03:34 ---Agreed about elephant gun - hands down my favourite shotgun. For the price of PP you get the ultimate in terms of boomstick efficiency.
This may sound a little silly, but if you do a scout/shottyhead/int build, and you engage in corner shooting, wait for them to come closer before shooting them. You can see where exactly they are so just wait till they come real close. For example, when clearing the Vaults, if you see a pink asterisk further off, wait till it gets near (like 2 tiles away), then unload into its face. You get a lot more damage per shell that way. Arachs die really quickly when close up, but can take a lot of shells if you're shooting at the edge of vision.
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That's a good advice, not silly at all.
But you have to know when knockback will kick in. You don't want to stand up lamping in Baron's face just because you pulled the trigger a turn too late.
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