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Help me understand guns that are not shotguns

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spacedust:
I have played shotgun based builds ever since I first found DoomRL and recently, have been tempted to learn the art of rapid firing. But I am horrible at it and keep dying. How does it work?

Eg, let's say I open the door to a wide open space, and fire the shotgun to scout for bad guys. I hear some bad guys. What do I do? I can't possibly wait around for them to advance and engage them one on one and I can't shoot them in the darkness because I don't know their location. I've tried Int based builds and it seems to alleviate the problem somewhat, but how do people do Ammochain builds and all that stuff?

Edit: Also, what guns are recommended early/mid/late game? If I am planning on Whizkid, what should I aim to build around or save mods for? I like the guaranteed Chaingun from HA, and I can put together an assault chaingun using CC and the Armory mods, but what else do I do? I understand that plasma builds are great in the endgame when bullets bounce off enemies, but what do you aim for when building?

Also, ammo balance. I can't figure out how much of each to carry. My last few runs packed 1 RL/1 rockets, 1 shotgun/2 shells, and about 5 bullets, 5 cells. It does seem like an awful lot of stuff...

AlterAsc:
About Ammochain first.I start it with Rel2 and until i get MAc i use shotguns.
After i get i usually just walk around, if i see someone i shoot him with my A-modded plasma rifle.If he's dangerous than i go behind a corner and wait until i see enemy, then i shoot him, if he's not dead i shoot him again, if he's still alive i fire third volley and kill it.If it's not dead yet than that's "B" in some exotic plasma armor and it's time to switch to smth else.
If you're lucky and find sniper mod during your MAc game then you become awesome to the point of almost always killing your enemy with one volley(with maxed SoB).
Another thing - beware of knockback.If there's a chance that shot damage is at least 12, that means there's a chance to knockback your enemy so all shots after miss.For example if you have SoB5 then even P-modded plasma is most of the time inferior to unmodded, not to say about P2 or P3.That also means that making burst cannon can be a waste of mods.
If you play rapid-fire build, don't forget to visit Spider Lair.It's pretty easy with your plasma rifle and rewards are useful - cells from Arachnotrons is more than you spent killing them and nuclear plasma saves a lot of cells for non-Mac rapid-fire builds.
If you play Tech you have easy access to WK so it's worth assembling assault rifle - it's not as good as it was but still pretty much okay.Also hyperblaster is good too.
Don't forget to take at least one level in EE(maybe after master trait, mb before) - without it you have to apply agility mods or your weapon'll be horribly ammo-inefficient and you don't have MAc to help with ammo problem.Disregard this should you find sniper mod.

Ashannar:

--- Quote from: spacedust on March 11, 2012, 05:42 ---Eg, let's say I open the door to a wide open space, and fire the shotgun to scout for bad guys. I hear some bad guys. What do I do? I can't possibly wait around for them to advance and engage them one on one
--- End quote ---

Rapid fire builds are actually best-suited to do just that. You're guaranteed to get one salvo off before retaliation; formers and imps are guaranteed kills with a vanilla chaingun once you have EE and SoB (barring armors, of course). (Once you tag an enemy it will head straight for you without delay, so it's not like it's a long wait.)

Doorways are pretty inferior to proper cover (unless of course your enemy is along the wall). With int, you should be able to lure the enemy to an advantageous spot. So basically: in close quarters, game intuition. Long-range, game cateye. Really, you shouldn't ever get hit unless you get surrounded.


--- Quote ---I've tried Int based builds and it seems to alleviate the problem somewhat, but how do people do Ammochain builds and all that stuff?
--- End quote ---

Int/cateye is superior in every way to ammochain, in my opinion. Not only is ammochain basically pointless unless you're doing AoLT, but it blocks all the best traits.

raekuul:
I would recommend Int/Cateye for a pistol build more than for a Rapidfire build, though that's primarily due to personal preference for pistols.

The style of play is vastly different between Shotguns and Non-Shotguns in that Shotguns can easily handle crowds of monsters whereas Non-Shotguns are designed for taking down individuals. When I do non-challenge runs, I go for Pistol builds and keep a Shotgun (but just a Shotgun) for until I get the Rocket Launcher. It helps that you can easily carry a thousand bullets but only a few hundred shells.

Pricklyman:

--- Quote from: Ashannar on March 11, 2012, 06:20 ---Int/cateye is superior in every way to ammochain, in my opinion. Not only is ammochain basically pointless unless you're doing AoLT, but it blocks all the best traits.

--- End quote ---

I am totally waiting for the blast...(Yes I know it's your opinion, but I must refute it nonetheless!)

1) MAc pretty much makes Plasma builds possible (since even the Nuke Plasma Rifle is a little dodgy - since you often run out of bullets before finishing an encounter.)

2) MAc allows you to actually carry more...stuff, also allows you to carry spare weapons, mods and even a shotgun with ammo, (If you so choose) since you don't really need more than two stacks of 10mm/cells.

3) I agree it takes that MAc has the biggest effect in AoLT.

4) I fail to see how TaN, SoG and EE are the best traits in the game. I agree that EE is one of the best, but TaN and SoG...not so much. SoG simply because in a situation where you would build towards Ammochain, whyever you would use a pistol is beyond me. You still have access to Fin/WK/Jug which allow speed, which complements the spam provided by Ammochain.

5) I agree that Int/MCe is pretty good, but besides foresight, it gives little else. (On a more personal note, MCe confuses the hell out of me RE: knowing when enemies can fire back.) Also, with MAc you can afford a few "probing bursts" into the distance with a chaingun to see what's what.


But anyway, back to OP...

Rapidfire builds are more suited towards single encounters as opposed to crowd control, as raekull said. Before getting MAc I personally just carry a shotgun with me, for crowd control. (Whether it is a vanilla shotty, a combat shotty or otherwise is down to RNG) Once you get MAc you can just corner shoot your heart out with a chaingun or something, since bullets REALLY aren't an issue anymore! :D (Which helps with "vision")

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