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Help me understand guns that are not shotguns

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Uitë:

--- Quote from: Pricklyman on March 11, 2012, 07:20 ---4) I fail to see how TaN, SoG and EE are the best traits in the game. I agree that EE is one of the best, but TaN and SoG...not so much. SoG simply because in a situation where you would build towards Ammochain, whyever you would use a pistol is beyond me. You still have access to Fin/WK/Jug which allow speed, which complements the spam provided by Ammochain.
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Well, SoG's fire speed bonus gets pretty ridiculous at the higher levels, regularly emptying bullets at your target faster than rapid-fire weapons, and for higher damage per bullet too, furthermore allowing you to re-aim between every shot. Combinining it with a GCB, you get the best of both worlds, and absolutely destroy everything. Granted, your ammo needs when using pistols are higher than with Ammochain, but not by that much.

Deathwind:

--- Quote from: spacedust on March 11, 2012, 05:42 ---Also, ammo balance. I can't figure out how much of each to carry. My last few runs packed 1 RL/1 rockets, 1 shotgun/2 shells, and about 5 bullets, 5 cells. It does seem like an awful lot of stuff...

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Some of the hardest parts of doomrl revolve around this exact issue, it really depends on your build/play style. I prefer ammochain for my rapid-fire builds, as such I tend to skip the chaingun entirely by just sticking to the shotguns till I can upgrade to plasma.

As such before MAc I only carry:
2 stacks of 10mm (or 1 chain) with the chaingun in my prep slot
3-4 stacks of shells with the shotgun/combat shotgun as main weapon
2 stacks of rockets and the launcher (missile launcher normally)
All the cells I can spare space for (2-4 stacks, BFGs count)

After MAc it shifts to one stack of shells with an extra 2 stacks of 10mm till I get a plasma rifle, then I drop the shotgun and lose the extra 10mm (always keep 2 stacks or 1 chain encase of plasma shortage till the nuclear rifle), and double the cells with the extra space going to large med kits/armor.

In MAc never use the assault rifle assembly, use the guaranteed A mods to:
1 on a set of steel boots (upgrade to tac boots with a wild A mod)
1 on the plasma rifle
1 on the chaingun (no plasma when MAc) or save it for the nuclear rifle.

HenWen:
Even with rapid fire builds I don't usually use rapid fire weapons until later in the game.  They are very trait-intensive.  Also it is a good idea to switch weapons depending on what enemies are in the area - keep your ears open.  If you are going around a corner or opening a door to a large room it is usually a good idea to have a shotgun equipped. 

I can't really say that there is a typical rapid-fire build either.  Cateye gives you usually two rounds to shoot at enemies before they can see you in wide open spaces.  Entrenchment, combined with properly modded armor and the TaN levels that the trait requires, increases your survivability.  And yes, with MAc it is entirely possible to blindly shoot once you know roughly where the enemies are.

Pistol builds generally stick with pistols as their primary weapon throughout the game, same with shotgun builds.  But this is not the case with rapid fire builds.  EE levels are extremely important, but since this is forbidden by MAc it is not uncommon for me to use the combat shotgun over the chaingun or even plasma if I do not have sufficient agility mods for my weapon.  So just be prepared to use them differently.  It is true that GCB makes pistol builds ludicrously strong, but without that I think rapid fire builds have the easiest time killing everything in the lower levels of the game.  You are giving up some early game power for late game power.

Deathwind:
A mods just won't spawn, that is why I need horde the few that you can be sure to get. This game is one of the hardest inventory puzzles ever made, you win or lose a rapid-fire game mostly to inventory management.

Ashannar:

--- Quote from: Pricklyman on March 11, 2012, 07:20 ---2) MAc allows you to actually carry more...stuff, also allows you to carry spare weapons, mods and even a shotgun with ammo, (If you so choose) since you don't really need more than two stacks of 10mm/cells.
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In the last cateye rapid fire build I did, I carried a combat shotgun, BFG, missile launcher, chaingun, and plasma rifle, with enough shells to shoot to my heart's content. I had pretty sizable stacks of 9mm and plasma. With a bit of management, I never came close to running out of either ammo type. 9mm on weaker enemies, rockets + plasma on harder. I agree, though- if you want to spam plasma, MAC is the way to go.


--- Quote ---4) I fail to see how TaN, SoG and EE are the best traits in the game. I agree that EE is one of the best, but TaN and SoG...not so much. SoG simply because in a situation where you would build towards Ammochain, whyever you would use a pistol is beyond me. You still have access to Fin/WK/Jug which allow speed, which complements the spam provided by Ammochain.
--- End quote ---

For some reason I was under the impression that HR was blocked by ammochain, but I was wrong. That's a bit better.

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