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Author Topic: The "Basic Doom" Module  (Read 22421 times)

shark20061

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The "Basic Doom" Module
« on: March 16, 2012, 19:48 »

Have you ever wanted to go through DoomRL without having to worry about classes, or levels, or special floors, or XP?  Well, you're in luck, because that's what this module is all about!  It's the basic DoomRL game where you can't level up, and your trait/class doesn't help you!

The original purpose of this module was as a test for a proposed challenge mode by Game Hunter as described here.  This is the fourth version, here are the last 2 difference lists.


Comments, questions, concerns, and criticism all appreciated.  Enjoy the module!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 10:38 by shark20061 »
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2012, 07:16 »

Ooh.  This sounds interesting.  Will give it a try right now. :)
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 12:46 »

Alright, tweaking wave 1 is available above.  Try it out and see if it's easier/harder/better than/worse than the regular game.

A full list of changes is available in the spoiler below (it's spoiled cause it's massive)
Spoiler: List of differences (click to show/hide)

The new version is attached to the main post.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 14:18 by shark20061 »
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Matt_S

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 13:55 »

Woo, interesting changes.  But the chaingun's 1d7+2 is better than the plasma rifle's 1d8+1.
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 14:06 »

Good point, might have to make a change there, although the plasma rifle does deal plasma damage vs. chaingun bullet damage...
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 14:21 »

Why the Shotgun nerfs?  It was pretty much the god-gun in the original Doom.
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2012, 14:52 »

The intent is to get the other weapons used a little more, so I downgraded the shotguns just a little (at least I think it's just a little, they're still very useful).
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2012, 20:15 »

I guess I put up a couple of my own thoughts first, since I've been playing it quite a bit now:

First, the shotgun nerf was a mistake.  I'll be fixing that in an update shortly.

Second, I think I need to improve everything else even more, and I've got a plan for a couple of things.  But I'm not going to make too drastic a change between now and this coming update.

I'll be updating a couple things shortly, so standby.

EDIT: Changes up.  See initial post.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 21:18 by shark20061 »
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Shinji_Ikari_9th

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2012, 21:26 »

looking good so far shark.
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ZZ

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2012, 04:48 »

Here is my attempt
Spoiler: Mortem (click to show/hide)
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Simon-v

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2012, 05:28 »

Plays nicely, is fairly challenging due to the apparent need to carry many weapons to use in different situations and adapt tactically to new threats. I'd like to see the backpack appear as a rare powerup, but i'll leave that to the author's discretion.
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2012, 09:08 »

I've played a little with the older builds and have found it really difficult.  That's partly because I'm generally rubbish at DoomRL anyway but mostly because I tend to rely on the shotty.  I presumed that that would be the weapon of choice as it is in the original Doom but now I realise you have to use a mix of weapons to get the best out of it.

I'm looking forward to trying out the new build and will play around later. :)
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2012, 11:26 »

Looks like we found a new challenge mode, Angel of Doom
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ZZ

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2012, 11:42 »

I'd vote for it remaining as a module. not as a challenge mode, because it's required play style is way too different from the original. Also, the mix of weapons is not crucial, the thing you need to understand is that without experience, you have absolutely no need to kill everything.

Also, the thing that would make it a little easier - disabling enemies picking items up. It's not as it was in Doom, and new buffed armors make it a real trouble to kill ordinary formers.

Another idea would to merge it with AoI, thus making it even more harder, but bringing it even closer to vanilla Doom. And since we're already upgrading weapons, why not upgrade them a little more, and implement this?
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Brewtal Legend

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2012, 00:39 »

Quote
the thing you need to understand is that without experience, you have absolutely no need to kill everything.

You can still kill everything just cause you want to and because you need to. Otherwise they will kill you. And they will keep you from reaching the end of the level. Just like in the original Doom. You didn't get any xp, but you still tried to kill everything, or most everything because you either wanted to or they threatened your chance of survival.

If you also added point scoring somehow to the kills, that might give more reason to kill everything. Kinda like Basic Doom meets Arcade Doom.
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Ander Hammer

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2012, 07:21 »

Health above 100% still decays... intended?

I'm up for preventing enemy item use as long as Doom turns into AoI.

Maybe remove health packs completely and ramp up health spawns?

Maybe remove ammo packs?

(Except I needed both of those things to kill Cybie...)
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2012, 10:16 »

I'll weigh in on the proposed suggestions:

Backpack as a rare powerup:  I've decided to add it as a bonus on a mid game level.  Which level?  I don't even know!

Make enemies stop picking up items: This is actually a little harder to do than it first looks, since it involves a re-write of the former and baron ai scripts.  I'll have to get my hands on those scripts first before I'll be able to change them.

Score counter: The game already has a built in score counter system, although how it works is mysterious and most sources of score aren't tallied until the end of the game.  It sounds like it would take a lot of code.  I'll think about it.

Add AoI restrictions: Surprisingly, that's an easy one line toggle.  Sure, it can be done.

Upgrade weapons even more: ... alright, I can do that, although I don't know in what ways I should improve them.

Stop >100% health decay: Also a one line change, and would probably be a fair change.

Keep suggestions coming!  I'll post an update once I can change the AI scripts properly.
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2012, 10:20 »

I don't like the score idea. I mean, we are trying to make it more like doom, not less like doom, right?
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Matt_S

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2012, 10:42 »

You can still kill everything just cause you want to
Hell yeah!
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2012, 14:01 »

I don't like the score idea. I mean, we are trying to make it more like doom, not less like doom, right?

For the sake of clarification - are we talking a score counter - or a kill counter?

(Seeing as there was a kill counter in original Doom.)
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2012, 14:20 »

Score counter. I think it's unnecessary to give players this weak motivation to 100% clear all levels. From what I read, a lot of people are going for YAAM even when it's not a very good tactical decision.
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Matt_S

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2012, 15:00 »

From what I read, a lot of people are going for YAAM even when it's not a very good tactical decision.
No sacrifice, no victory.
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« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 19:27 by Matt_S »
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 04:35 »

Now that I think about it, AoI restrictions with DoomRL's bosses and no traits sounds like it might be iffy.

Maybe some health spawns in boss arenas?
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2012, 19:08 »

Posting update. One moment...

Update posted, but first a couple notes.

Considering the difficulty of the module already, I decided not to include the AoI restriction at the moment.  But I did improve a couple weapons just ever so slightly more.

Rest of the changes are in the change log, see the opening post for details.  Enjoy!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 20:17 by shark20061 »
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2012, 21:00 »

you need to change the version number in the files so that it reads right.  other then that it's good so far.

here's a screen shot from the last level i reached this time.

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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2012, 22:12 »

you need to change the version number in the files so that it reads right.  other then that it's good so far.

Whooooooops!  Fixed.
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2012, 01:48 »

What about setting every reload time to 0, like it was in the original?

Also, green armor outperforms blue on formers. I suppose it should be fixed, because in the original, next tier was always better than the previous.

Also, disable phase devices please. And tracking maps.
Edit: Oh, sorry. The mod seems to stop working after save/loading. If that's not author's fault, I'll post this as a bug.

And make the walls (and possibly items) indestructible.

Also a good idea as for me would be to implement juggler trait bonuses.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 02:44 by ZZ »
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2012, 13:49 »

What about setting every reload time to 0, like it was in the original?
Also, green armor outperforms blue on formers. I suppose it should be fixed, because in the original, next tier was always better than the previous.
Also, disable phase devices please. And tracking maps.
And make the walls (and possibly items) indestructible.
Also a good idea as for me would be to implement juggler trait bonuses.
Comment responses deferred for later.

Edit: Oh, sorry. The mod seems to stop working after save/loading. If that's not author's fault, I'll post this as a bug.
Fixed.  My fault.
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2012, 08:03 »

I am playing your mod now, and a start pistol has 2d4 D, not 2d5+1 and fire time of 1. Enemies pistol has 2d5 dam and less fire time. Is it right?
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2012, 10:08 »

Also, items were indestructible in original Doom. I wonder if it's possible to adapt constant weapon change time, like in Doom. So unequipping would take 0s, while equipping item would take 1s, or so. Or make it 0.5 / 0.5 ?
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shark20061

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2012, 10:38 »

What about setting every reload time to 0, like it was in the original?
I think that would make this way too easy, and I'm not exactly going for a perfect recreation of Doom in DoomRL.

Also, green armor outperforms blue on formers. I suppose it should be fixed, because in the original, next tier was always better than the previous.
I think I'll leave the armors alone for now.

Also, disable phase devices please. And tracking maps.
... probably.

Also, items were indestructible in original Doom.
And make the walls (and possibly items) indestructible.
I'll probably do that too, at least the items.

Also a good idea as for me would be to implement juggler trait bonuses.
That doesn't make sense, because it took time to switch weapons, and you didn't automatically get to use a chainsaw if you had, say, your pistol out.

I am playing your mod now, and a start pistol has 2d4 D, not 2d5+1 and fire time of 1. Enemies pistol has 2d5 dam and less fire time. Is it right?
Nope, that's not right.  Fixed.

I wonder if it's possible to adapt constant weapon change time, like in Doom. So unequipping would take 0s, while equipping item would take 1s, or so. Or make it 0.5 / 0.5 ?
That seems hard to code.
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Equality

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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2012, 09:59 »

hey, the game quite playable :) but...

DoomRL - Fatal Error!

DoomRL crashed!
Reason: LuaError: basicdoom.OnWinGame -- Call(basicdoom.OnWinGame) not found!

It's ok?
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2013, 18:14 »

Wouldn't it be simplier to just give player fixed traits across the board (Badassx2, EE1, SoB2 etc), instead of changing every weapon?
Also, what about replicating levels from original doom (even if very roughly)
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Re: The "Basic Doom" Module
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2013, 04:19 »

Quote
What about replicating levels from original doom (even if very roughly)
I think it depends on the possibility to exploit the limited level size. In "inferno" module, Hell keep is rather good... but it's a small level, and it takes most of available room. I'd be in favor of bigger levels, but considering console version.. I doubt it's possible to implement.
Also, this might be too repetitive, but original doom didn't have random levels after all, so why not ?

Quote
instead of changing every weapon
In "Basic doom", I'd be tempted to remove exotics & uniques. Isn't it what is planned here ?

I want to upvote ideas like making the game AoI, prevent enemies from picking things up, etc.
Also, all both armors should be... cursed, and possible to override with a better/newer one ?
Anyway, I read about new armors, so I guess you put more than just green & blue armors.
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