Print

Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Alpro]

From what i read here and on the wiki, there seem to be 5 build categories: melee, pistol, shotgun, rapid fire and survival. I suspect some archetypes work better for some classes than others, is this correct? Also, are all archetypes viable for all classes on all difficulty levels? And one more thing, are hybrid builds viable?

So far i won with a survival marine on ITYTD, a shotgun scout on HNTR and a rapid fire scout on HMP.

I'm ready to move on to something else now, maybe UV, though i really like HMP, where the luck factor has a smaller impact. What i have no idea about is how can a melee build survive past the first few levels? And even if that is possible, how do you approach Arachnotrons later on? Or am i supposed to still use a gun as a backup weapon? What about pistol builds, they look weak on paper compared to shotguns and rapid fire. I'd like to make a dual knife or dual pistol build, do i absolutely have to use Whizkid? This is something i haven't tried yet...

[Uranium]

In the early game, melee is probably the hardest way to play because of sergeants and their knockback, because you've got no way to consistently deal with them, I usually just make a run for the stairs until I get a chainsaw. After a melee player has the chainsaw, the idea is to remain in the berserk state for as long as is humanly possible. Berserk provides the best armour in the game, 60% to all resistances and increased movespeed, nothing else really comes close. Coupled with double melee damage and Brute 3, at level four/five, a melee player is probably going to be doing (4d6+9)x2. After he's got the Longinus Spear, he'll be doing (8d8+9)x2. Survival to a standard player is not being hurt. Survival to a melee player is killing everything so fast that there's nothing left to hurt you.

Master-trait wise, Marines have Vampyre, which is probably my favourite trait because it turns Pain Elementals into walking health and berserk machines. Leave a Pain Elemental until last, and you can enter the next level with 200% health and a zerk pack's worth of berserk.
Blademaster was favoured for Nightmare! melee runs because it allows you to kill enemies without giving anything else time to act, and it emphasises killing power rather than survival.
Malicious Blades blocks Berserker, which is why I don't use it, but if you're berserked (from a pack or skull) and wielding two chainswords that are B-modded, you're doing ((9d2+9)x2)x2, which really can add up. Couple this with MMB's resistances, and you realise why melee late-games are often already a foregone conclusion in humanity's favour.

edit: fixed typo, it's unlikely demons will want to 'heart' you, rather they want to hurt

[spacedust]

I played lots of games recently in aiming for the malicious knives cross, so here's some quick tips on surviving the first few levels.

1) Giftdropping! This is probably the greatest tip for surviving the first few levels when you are a fledgling young one and likely to be dispatched by any old sergeant.

2) Run! Running lets you go toe to toe with slightly tougher enemies and not die.

3) If you're not opposed to a mixed build, ie saving melee only for late game and using something to survive the early game, try shotguns. Shotguns are reasonably effective on earlier levels even without the associated traits, and you can probably use a vanilla shotty until the Phobos Anomoly if you have one level of Reloader mixed in with your other melee traits

[ZicherCZ]

If you want to go to UV, you may want to give a shot at Angel of Max Carnage. It is hard, but it will certainly hone your injury-avoiding skills. Recommended build from me: Scout going Cateye, Int2 ASAP. After you reach MCe, you are basically unstoppable, save for a very bad random spawn at the beginning of a level.

[ih8regin]

By the way people, do P mods over a chainsword make it 8d3? If so, it's better amping a chainsword with P instead of B once you're past WK2.

[Creaphis]

According to the wiki, P mods increase the higher number value in a weapon's dice notation. In the case of the chainsword, this is the number of dice rather than the number of sides, so P and B mods should behave identically.

I say, give one chainsword a P mod, one a B mod and then give them nicknames.


Also, I'm learning that my character's "build" has almost nothing to do with the weapons I actually use on that character - at least not in the early game. Shotguns, chainguns and rocket launchers all have their places until you're proficient enough with one or two weapon types to drop the rest.

[Ashannar]

I would say there are a few more builds than those listed in the OP.

One of the most powerful, in my opinion, is just to stock up on basic traits. Finesse, Hellrunner, Eagle Eye, Ironman, Reloader.. then you can go into a dual build.. get Shottyman and Triggerhappy, or Intuition and SoG, etc.

[2DeviationsOut]

First of all, there are three kinds of defense.

Passive defense:
     
     Relies on so much armor/TaN/Iro/Bad that you can just walk into enemies fire.

     Pros: You don't have to play with as much skill, since you can take so much punishment.
     Cons: You usually don't have much offense to speak of, relies a lot on armors.
     Works well with: Vampyre, Army of the Dead, Survivalist, Entrenchment, Malicious Blades

Active defense

     Relies on high movespeed and dodges

     Pros: Doesn't rely as much on armor, extremely good vs bosses
     Cons: Autohit enemies are your worst nightmare. You don't have the durability to take their hits, and you can't dodge revs and viles.
     Works well with: Blademaster, Fireangel, Shottyhead, Gun Kata, Running Man

Tactical Defense

     Relies on player knowledge, listening for enemies, and cornershooting/radarshooting

     Pros: Extremely low trait cost, you can do this without any traits. Can be used to augment another defensive mode.
     Cons: Requires an extremely experienced player to do properly, one screw-up can doom you.
     Works well with: Ammochain, Sharpshooter, Bullet Dance, Cateye, Scavenger

[Alpro]

Thanks for the tips guys, i'll try to give a generic answer to all of your replies and once. I have no problems using a shotty until i'm ready to go melee. In fact, shotguns are always what carries me through the early levels, without one, i die quickly. Gift-dropping is something i yet have to try. I see Finesse, Hellrunner, Eagle Eye, Ironman and Reloader as survival traits, so no matter what kind of build you go for, you're most likely going to use one or more of these, right? The interesting part of tactical defense is that you get to stack it on top of passive and/or active defense and it increases with player experience. :)

So, a few more little questions...
No one mentioned anything about pistols, should i assume pistol-focused builds suck or they're just unpopular?
The assemblies system is confusing, it is one of the reasons i haven't tried Whizkid yet. How do I make one? Do i only have to put the proper mod packs on a proper weapon/armor? Do i have to put them in a specific order? And finally, at which point in the game should i get Whizkid, considering you don't find many mods in early game?

[Matt_S]

First of all, there are three kinds of defense.

Let me see if I can remember the way I heard it explained :)
Passive defense is standing around getting shot at.
Active defense is running around getting shot at.
Tactical defense is not getting shot at.

[thelaptop]

Let me see if I can remember the way I heard it explained :)
Passive defense is standing around getting shot at.
Active defense is running around getting shot at.
Tactical defense is not getting shot at.

More like passive defense is not knowing when you will get shot and not caring, active defense is not knowing when you will get shot but caring, tactical defense is knowing when you will get shot and caring.

[Deathwind]

pistol builds can be some of the strongest but they can also be some of the hardest to get started because the pistol is so weak without the traits. Also the new lost soul bullet resistance REALLY hurts pistol builds.

[ih8regin]

in case of dedicated pistol builds, that is, AoMr-resreicted, yes they are very hard to pull off. And you basically need all your traits in SoG at once, since the firepower demand grows ridiculously fast on anything but HNTR (at least for me). With less restricted builds you can start off with shotgun from the very first sergeant you meet, and hold up pistols while not having at least Dualgunner (if not going for MSs which blocks Dualgunner), so shotgunning through early levels will be the main way for pistoleer to kill prior to everything else.

[spacedust]

Giftdropping! this will be your best ally in surviving early levels when you are still a young Doomguy. Practice this on Phobos Level 1 (the starting level) until you can get it done right. The concept is really simple but you'll find out how much difference it makes to survivability when they're not shooting at you, and instead trying to trade punches with you. For more information watch Gam Hunter's videos.

I always feel like the most evil Santa in the world when doing it though - "here's a nice medpack and I'm going to put it behind the door, come get your present..." then BOOOM-chick!

[Ander Hammer]

More like passive defense is not knowing when you will get shot and not caring, active defense is not knowing when you will get shot but caring, tactical defense is knowing when you will get shot and caring.

And then there's berserker defense, which is knowing when you will get shot but not caring.