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Author Topic: Defeating the Cyberdemon  (Read 6367 times)

Numbernaut

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Defeating the Cyberdemon
« on: March 21, 2012, 07:23 »

Hello all. 

I wasn't sure where to turn for advice on this, and I really haven't found anything through thorough searching of the forum yet.

Usually in DoomRL I am able to stand my ground and kill everything until I get to the Tower of Babel level with the Cyberdemon. To be honest, I've only defeated the Cyberdemon about once, with a BFG9000 and a bit of luck.  So far, corner shooting and sidestepping don't really help me that much. Most of the time, I easily get overwhelmed by lost souls, demons, and/or arachnotrons, forgive me.

I usually play as a scout for pistol builds, a marine for shotgun builds, and usually a scout for primary non-challenge games.

Any help on this? I will post my (poorly made) builds if requested.

I usually consult the wiki when I want to find some assemblies to make.
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Klear

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 07:30 »

Easiest way is to take dodgemaster. The trait allows you to dodge all cyberdemon's projectiles, so as long as you stay out of his melee reach and don't stand near walls/pillars, you shoud be able to survive indefinetly against him. Once he shoots at you (and you successfully dodge), shoot at him until you hear him reload. At that point move around until you dodge another rocket and repeat.

Another option is to go melee. Once you get zerked, you should be able to chop him up with your chainsaw in short order.
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Numbernaut

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 07:54 »

I guess that just means I haven't been properly using dodgemaster then.  I'm not really great at sidestepping and all, I need to think about timing my attacks. Spending too much time corner shooting the Cyberdemon was a bad idea after all.

Also, on an AoMr run, when it comes to Hell, I start to lose 10mm ammunition a lot.  There just isn't enough for my pistols and then I die.

Surprisingly, AoB works really well with Vampyre and the City of Skulls.
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ultimate26

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 09:43 »

By the time i get to cybie, i usually have a hyperblaster or assault rifle with 2 TH and 2 SOB so i never had issues killing him.

Rocket spamming and BFG spamming helps aswell, besides that just chain fire and heal till it dies.

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Ander Hammer

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 07:00 »

besides that just chain fire and heal till it dies.

PROTIP: To defeat the Cyberdemon, shoot at it until it dies.
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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 08:07 »

Hehehe... classic.
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Creaphis

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 12:19 »

I was going to post that too :)
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Demetrious

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 12:07 »

Unfortunately the ultimate anti-Cyberdemon build is currently bugged, in that Fireangel doesn't work. You can technically "dodge" all enemies, including Revenant's and Arch-Viles, but since their attacks target the tile next to you - and they always hit that tile - you get caught by splash damage anyways. With Fireangel, that doesn't touch you at all. Earning the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
is childishly easy with a Fireangel shotty build.

Somehow intuiting the timing of enemy attacks is nigh impossible - even with a scout with a .65 move speed I still end up walking into facefulls of Sergeant buckshot every level - so the easiest way to handle Cybie is to dodge back and forth until he takes a shot. Then you know you've got a few rounds to whale on him until you see him reload his launcher. Then you dodge again till he blows his wad, and resume firing.

Chain-fire builds usually don't have a problem with Cybie, since chain-fire is all about tanking damage while dishing out obscene amounts of pain in a very short time. They typically have a hyperblaster and some plasma for it as well, which helps cut through Cybie's obscene 4 points of armor, as well as putting incredible amounts of pain on in very short time.

But lets talk about your situation: killing Cybie with non-Fireangel shotty builds and pistol builds. Well, those are certainly harder.

First, pistols. Your first problem here (as I've found) is reloading. Gun Kata is absolutely amazing for the free reloads, which is otherwise the fatal Achilles heel of the build. Against Cybie, however, it's utterly useless, which is how many successful Gun Kata AoMr runs have ended bitterly. Your second problem is armor. Armor applies to each incoming projectile separately, so while it only takes the edge off explosions, it really puts the kibosh on rapid-fire attacks - and pistol-builds are rapid-fire. Think about it; you're effectively a manual chaingun. The third problem is ammo.

For reloading, you could face Cybie down with Speedloader Pistols - the mods for it aren't terribly hard to find (sometimes) and if you don't luck out and find some nice Unique pistols, and you don't get Whizkid before Cybie (more likely then not, both of them) you might end up facing Cybie with your early-game Speedloader pistols, and that isn't so bad, considering you'll really need the reload speed. And if you do find Uniques, or make better weapons, it's a good reason to hold onto your Speedloader's for a bit.

Or you could bite the bullet (hurr) and take two ranks in Reloader. But as long as you're taking Reloader... consider passing up Gun Kata completely! Especially if you're having trouble with successful dodging and tend to corner-shoot anyways, you may as well go the full mile. Try a Technician pistol build - the single-pistol master trait concentrates massive firepower into fewer attacks, which will help greatly versus armor and ammo conservation. (Especially if you save a 10mm ammochain for the Cybie fight; free reloads!) Or you could just go for Dualgunner, and dual-wield nasty Advanced assemblies pistols. Technician is vital for this, because you get access to Whizkid immediately, instead of three traits in (two ranks of Finesse, then WK.) This is a simple inventory issue - by the time you get Whizkid with a Scout or Marine, you've been lugging around tons of precious mods, and leaving medpacks, ammo, phase devices, etc behind. With a Technician, you can pick up WK shortly before (or in) Hell's Armory and really clean house. (If you're not in the habit of killing the Shambler, do try if you're in decent shape. The two extra mod packs really help.)

Which brings me to my second suggestion: the energy pistol. An advanced assembly, slightly superior to a normal pistol - but it uses power cells and does plasma damage. Plasma damage halves armor protection, very useful against Cybie, and even better, power cells are often more plentiful then 10mm deeper into Hell. And even with a 0.4 attack speed, the pistol doesn't devour cells the way Plasma Rifles like to. One will help, and if you're lucky enough to assemble two then you can just blaze through Cybie like he isn't there, especially with two ranks of Reloader. Note also that the sweet pistol Uniques almost all have a looong reload time of 2.0 seconds, so Reloader is really important for using them well against bosses. Then there's the Blaster, which is basically a moddable plasma pistol that fires even faster and never, ever needs reloading. Pray to the deity of your choice for that one.

With a Technician dualgunner build you can still dodge by taking two ranks in Hellrunner (very useful for ducking behind corners to reload. Doesn't much help Reloader-less dualgunners because the typical 2.4 sec reload time usually ends with Barons strolling right up to your corner and whaling on you.) Or you can put those ranks into Ironman or Tough as Nails if you prefer.

Now, shotguns. Without Fireangel (allowing you to chip Cybie to death because he can't touch you) your options come down to Army of Darkness or rocket launcher as a secondary, since 8 effective armor vs. shotguns is bad juju. Now the nice thing about the Rocket Launcher; it fits most builds as a secondary weapon with just a mod or two. Launchers like Eagle Eye (for more reliable hits) and Reloader (one-shot and slow to reload.) Most builds will have at least one of those; for shotguns it's 2 ranks in Reloader. If you cleared out The Wall you should have the Missile Launcher, with perfect accuracy and a 5-rocket magazine; that should put some serious hurt on Cybie really quick. If not, slap an Agility Mod onto a Rocket Launcher (effective 10% in hits at max range) and go to town; with two ranks in Reloader you'll pump out rockets just fine. If you plan on lugging a few more stacks of Rockets then a Bulk mod - plus two ranks of Reloader - works miracles for the Rocket Launcher. The occasional miss isn't as devastating because you'll be pumping out rockets faster. The vanilla Rocket Launcher also keeps the Rocket Jump ability, which is very handy if you go with Army of Darkness.

MAD (Master Army of Darkness) makes shotguns completely ignore armor; very powerful. However it also takes away Hellrunner and Finesse, which is really, really harsh. You can't play active-shotgun worth a damn and your ability to dish out damage really fast is lacking, even with Piercing shotguns. Oh, no Advanced assemblies, either. Congrats, you're a corner-shooting hero. On the other hand, armor doesn't exist for you, so you can chip away at Cybie corner-shooting with a Combat Shotty like you're whacking imps on level 3. Unfortunately Cybie doesn't suffer knockback, so he'll be all over you very, very shortly. Now you've got two options, depending on location and situation:

1. Two to Tango. If he's really close, turn on Running and pray you can close to melee range before he blasts you halfway across the arena with a rocket. (If he does, see #2.) Then bust out the biggest, nastiest boomstick you've got, P-modded Double Shotty is preferable. Cybie's melee attack is nasty, but not as nasty as his rockets, especially since his rockets hurt just as much at 10 tiles as they do at 2, but your shotguns drop off fast with range - and when he rockets you, you get knocked back a ways. Then just step in diagonals around him to reload your shotty (or just reload stationary, if that's faster. Check by pressing @ to see stats.) 36 points of completely unmitigated damage each round will rip Cybie apart quick. Or...

2. DARING MUH-REEN ON THE FLY~ING TRAPEEZE~ Exploit the monstrous knockback of Cybie's rockets. This involves not tech-modding armor and taking off your boots if you don't desperately need any move bonus they might have. Also, put on the Phaseshift boots if you're lucky enough to find them. At least some of the time Cybie's attack will send you out of his sight radius... and if it doesn't, swap to your rocket launcher and rocket-jump even further away (your rocket's going to hurt a lot less then his, for sure.) Then just get out your Combat/Tac shotgun and spray buckshot in Cybie's general direction till he catches up to you, rinse, and repeat. (Note rocket-jumping away yourself is preferable to letting Cybie blast you.) With Piercing damage, your chipping will actually work.

And it is chipping - Combat/Tac shotguns will hurt out to range 15 (your vision is only 8 tiles) but you can rack up some pretty impressive damage over time. Key phrase "over time." This is ammo-intensive. If Cybie catches you at close range you might want to take the oppertunity to get a much better kick in with your shotgun before he sends you a-sailing - or if you think you can swap to your rocket launcher before he nails you, let him eat your rocket as you rocket-jump away (enemies nearby take the brunt of that blast.) Be flexible. You could always keep your Tactical boots, tech-mod your armor and rely on two ranks of badass to just slog close to Cybie and kick him in the teeth with your double-shotty, if you think that'll work.

Just my... two dollars. And change. An hour successfully wasted, woop.
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AlterAsc

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 15:29 »

Quote
many successful Gun Kata AoMr runs have ended bitterly
MGK requires DM and the only thing DM requires is patience and ammo(3 stacks should be more than enough), nothing else.Dodge, shoot, repeat.Reloading one pistol takes about 1.2s which is less then 1.5s reload of rocket launcher (including 110% speed of Cybie).Free medal if you didn't get unlucky with initial Cybie position.
Quote
Doesn't much help Reloader-less dualgunners because the typical 2.4 sec reload time usually ends with Barons strolling right up to your corner and whaling on you.
Safe way to reload two pistols is reload and after that dualreload, which removes 2.4 seconds of being vulnerable problem

Also i'll say it once again:fireproof(30) red(25) + envirosuit(25) = 80% fire resistance = kill cybie with any build and any ranged weapon you have.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 15:33 by AlterAsc »
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skarczew

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 16:15 »

AoMr without MGK is more than possible. Just check out my build for last Platinum run...

And remember about Speedloader Pistols. A mods are guaranteed, technical mods happen from time to time as well.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 04:40 by skarczew »
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AlterAsc

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 21:38 »

Actually i think that MGK is the weakest pistol build.MBD gives you rapid-fire insanity,MSs is about knowing exactly how many times to shoot and general high-offence build for highest damage output with more accuracy than MBD.
Also does MGK become useless also after SoG5 ?After all you can't shoot faster than 0.1s anyway?Or can you with MGK?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 22:13 by AlterAsc »
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shark20061

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 22:19 »

Since MGK reduces the fire time by 90% after a dodge, and SoG5 would drop your fire time to 1 turn always, yes, at least that part is useless. You can still get free dualreloads every kill with MGK, though.
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ih8regin

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 23:17 »

Any shotgun build with Dodgemaster have Cybie as a pushover - the only thing you have to care about, is whether the wall behind you is close, and whether the Cybie is in melee range. Double shotgun, elephant gun, combat shotgun, plain shotgun - anything will do if you have enough ammo and patience. The only exception is elephant gun without Reloader and a shell box - with these constraints, you can't squeeze a reload between Cyberdemon's rockets.

About Gun Kata and Cyberdemon - well, why not taking him with one pistol, and that one be High Power pistol? First, its reload speed is 1.2, which is less than Cybie's reload rate, so you just have one pistol in your hand, have an ammo chain if you have it in another, and plink away like a boss-Sharpshooter. But, once he'll be "almost dead", swap an ammo chain for a second pistol and finish him - you'll get prepared for Hell at once, and your guns will get insta-dualreloaded.

Two to Tango? Well, with MAD it's a viable thing to do, but you'll burn through armor and medkits in no time. :( Still, you need a dead cyberdemon, so anything that will let you come on top will do. And yes, Running into Cybie and dancing around with Shottyman reload is the way I did him back there. (Since then I plain don't like MAD trait.)
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Obama Sheik

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 03:40 »

While we're talking about cybie, can someone give some advice on how to beat him as a technician? Once i grt malicious blades he'll be a pushover, but i can never seem to get it in time for the battle.
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AlterAsc

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Re: Defeating the Cyberdemon
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 04:01 »

Malicious blades require Dodgemaster.And i'm sure even on ITYTD you can get to lvl3 when you get to Cybie.
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