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Author Topic: Polished product  (Read 3246 times)

emulord

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Polished product
« on: July 31, 2012, 19:15 »

Heres the thing, I play console mode and do the "small" download because I have a better experience that way.

The graphics are great, but you can only see a fraction of the map. Why not have the whole level map be visible? It'd be way better for finding the exit when the level's cleared, long term planning of powerup pickups, Computer map visibility, etc.
The "high quality" music loops badly and has way less mojo than the midi versions. Midi still fits with 90s style graphics, so its totally fine.
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Re: Polished product
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2012, 19:43 »

I think there's a small translucent map on the lower right corner for the graphics version.  It might not be that obvious, so consider turning up the contrast/brightness of your screen.  I'm not sure if power-ups appear in that HUD map -- I don't play the graphics version at all.
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emulord

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Re: Polished product
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 09:20 »

It doesnt tell you all the information, and the overlay of a minimap ontop of the overhead view is disconcerting. Plus the 1 pixel per tile is pretty awful in the translucent minimap.
Yeah, you dont play graphics version. My point exactly.
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Re: Polished product
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2012, 09:49 »

Why not have the whole level map be visible?
It's plenty visible...if you have the screen resolution to handle it. The tiles themselves are 32x32, so on an 80x25 map you'll need a monitor with a 2560 pixel width. On my 1920x1200 monitor it's not bad at all: the game only has to scroll left and right, so I'm not missing much at a given point in time.

Trying to create 16x16 or 24x24 tilesets would be a lot of extra work, and I really doubt the current tileset is very shrinkable (that is, maintain high quality after compression). This may be worth looking into, though: I do agree that the graphical version has an odd disconnect with the console one when it comes to currently-available information. The GUI for the graphical version is getting a pretty significant facelift next version, so we'll try to see to it that the minimap is appropriately improved.

and has way less mojo
You're going to have to explain this part. The "bad looping" I can understand, and it's potentially something we can fix with some editing, but if you just don't like the music then you should probably go with something else. (IIRC, the MIDIs suffer the same looping problem, albeit more subtly.) Generally speaking, Kornel's trying to move away from the ID property stuff as much as possible, which means using sound and music that are under free-use licenses. The players, however, are free to modify their own sounds and music in whatever way they desire, so this is only an issue insomuch that the package released with the game may not have what you want.
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emulord

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Re: Polished product
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2012, 12:18 »

Ah I didn't realize about needing crazy screen resolution. Id rather have smaller+uglier sprites and be able to see everything. Maybe have a option for graphic type, or maybe autodetect resolution and use the best available?
If you can't do that, at least being able to scroll the map with looking would be acceptable.

Heres why the music has less mojo. The midis are in a sense flawless. They convey the appropriate feeling and play it mechanically and exactly. The tones are mathematically generated. All this adds to the evil atmosphere.
Also since this is a roguelike, a tactical, precise, evil atmosphere is the goal. You can play DoomFPS sloppily, but DoomRL requires you to be more of a evil machine than the demons.
The versions with real instruments in comparison sound like a garage band trying to play metallica songs. I honestly believe midi or similar is the best artistic choice for the game's mood. Fixing any midi looping issues is probably a great idea because it would remove the only tiny source of imperfection in the midi soundtrack.

Wait, wasn't Doom 1 released as open source semi-recently? Including data files and music?
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Tavana

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Re: Polished product
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2012, 15:10 »

I don't fiddle with the mouse very much, but I believe I saw GrAVit using it to scroll the map without using [L]ook mode in the videos in this thread. If I wasn't hallucinating then that should solve the problem...if you have a mouse.
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emulord

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Re: Polished product
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2012, 15:58 »

Using a mouse is not my first instinct in a roguelike. I very briefly tried using it. It was jerking all around on the menu screen and I didnt want my character charging chaotically toward his death, so I put it aside. Still not the best workaround, but It'll do.
Definetly for graphical version put character info on the bottom more than the side. Right now the screen diameters are so far off for width vs height.
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Creaphis

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Re: Polished product
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2012, 23:34 »

Wait, wasn't Doom 1 released as open source semi-recently? Including data files and music?

Nope. The engine has been open-source since the late nineties. The data is still for sale.
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Re: Polished product
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 00:41 »

I am using mouse to look (which is pretty much the only thing I use it for) - this discussion remind me that it would be nice to have a way to scroll the screen easily (and fast) using just keayboard.
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GrAVit

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Re: Polished product
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2012, 15:02 »

I tend to play the game windowed anyway, I once tried using the fullscreen version but it somehow screwed up and basically just magnified the windowed view, a lot.
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Re: Polished product
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 08:44 »

Heres why the music has less mojo. The midis are in a sense flawless. They convey the appropriate feeling and play it mechanically and exactly. The tones are mathematically generated. All this adds to the evil atmosphere.

The versions with real instruments in comparison sound like a garage band trying to play metallica songs. I honestly believe midi or similar is the best artistic choice for the game's mood. Fixing any midi looping issues is probably a great idea because it would remove the only tiny source of imperfection in the midi soundtrack.

You don't honestly believe that Doom's music wasn't inspired by (and, at certain points in certain songs, all but take bits and pieces of arrangements directly from) the likes of Metallica, and Slayer, and Alice in Chains, and other popular metal/rock/metal- and/or rock-ish artists of the time. The music has its charm because that genre has its charm; Doom's original music is a guy with a synthesizer pretending he's a garage band trying to play Metallica songs.

By comparison, DoomRL's music is almost, but not quite, the same thing. If I had to guess, I'd say that much of DoomRL's music is composed in MIDI, then played back with 'nicer' instruments and recorded in higher quality.

If you like the MIDIs, it's personal preference. If you don't like the .oggs, there's a 'low-quality' version of the game that's raw MIDI.
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Re: Polished product
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 08:58 »

Original Doom music?

That's a rip of from Pantera, Metallica, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Alice in Chains, Slayer and several other bands. Possible every single Doom "song" contains a riff stolen from other song. There are a lot of examples on youtube
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