Chaosforge Forum

  • December 05, 2019, 18:05
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Reasons for text-mode interface  (Read 6742 times)

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4476
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Reasons for text-mode interface
« on: August 23, 2012, 10:58 »

Let me first state my goal : I'd like to remove text-mode from all ChaosForge roguelikes. Take note however, that by text-mode, I only mean raw console mode -- it would be substituted with a pseudo-console, with variable fonts, fullscreen possibility, full-color possibility.

I don't think this should be a big of an issue, for many roguelikes nowdays use only pseudo-console.

However, I know that some people have strong opinions on that -- please state them now, so we can address them ASAP!

Also, please only note issues that affect you, yourself. I know for example that remote telnet play would become impossible that way, but considering the animations and sound used I doubt anyone uses it seriously.
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

GrAVit

  • Elder
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • MLG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2012, 12:16 »

As long as you add like an ASCII tileset or something, I'm down. Also, add a classic mode where you get to play the original DRL before the mastermind update.
Logged
[26|18|12|1|0] Arch-Vile Major (0.9.9.6)
[12|4|3|0|0|0] Imp Sergeant Major (0.9.9.7)

Reef Blastbody

  • Elder
  • Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
  • Big McLargehuge
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2012, 13:03 »

Maybe I'm the odd man out, but I don't know exactly what you mean.

Raw text mode is like running a roguelike from the bare code?

I understand that running it "pseudo-console" means it'll still look the same as playing it with only ASCII characters (ie classic style), and that graphical tilesets are "console mode" but what is the real difference?

Does running things open in raw text mean people can monkey with stuff or it crashes more or what?

As a gamer, I admittedly know little about the programming side of things, other than what I am forced to in order to install/get a game running/use other people's mods (which DoomRL has made easy).

Frankly, if I came across a roguelike and I can launch an .exe and play it, I don't feel like I've lost out on anything. I really only ever used TelNet for MUCKs/MUDs, I doubt I would for a roguelike.

I may be wrong, but I think the only reason people use TelNet with Nethack is so that anyone playing on the same server automatically shares bones files to have their dead adventurer's corpse/angry ghost show up in your game.

Rather than why it is an issue for us on the player side, what is the advantage for you to make all future releases console-only? I'm curious now!
Logged
HERE COMES THE NIGHT TRAIN

skarczew

  • Elder
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 974
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 13:06 »

DOSRecorder won't work :( .
Logged

thelaptop

  • Chaos Fanatic!
  • Grand Inquisitor
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2459
  • Grumpy Admin
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 13:59 »

I am okay with this on the following conditions:
  • Always have a non-complex graphic tile set available (i.e. exists at least one ASCII tile set).
  • Not have statuses/information representable solely by saturation of colour.
  • Information that is precise (i.e. tell me what damage range I am capable of instead of only some graphical representation).
  • Supports at a minimum display resolution of 800x600 pels (80x25 tiles) without any information loss.
  • Have comparable running speeds on machines which do not have high end graphics cards.
  • Have a means of altering the gamma/brightness of the game.
Logged
I compute, therefore I am.

Hell Baron 1st Lieutenant (0.9.9.7)
[20/12/8/0/0/0]

Solarn

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2012, 03:23 »

Ewww. I don't care what you say, having an ASCII tileset doesn't look anything like a proper console mode. Please don't get rid of it.
Logged

Tormuse

  • Elder
  • General
  • *
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1535
  • More Angelic than not
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2012, 18:19 »

Well, I haven't been active on the forums or played any Roguelikes lately, (been busy with school and work) so I don't know how much my opinion counts here, but, as I've stated before, the main reason I play Roguelikes in the first place is the simplicity of the graphics that don't take any significant processor power.  My computer is a crappy hand-me-down of a hand-me-down and I find that it chugs whenever I play the graphical version of Doomrl, making it unplayable.

If I understand what you're suggesting, it sounds like your changes will make the game unplayable for me.  Of course, I haven't been playing lately anyway, so maybe that doesn't mean anything.  (schoolwork takes priority for me, and I was kind of waiting for Doomrl 0.9.9.7 to come out before resuming playing anyway)  :)

If I may ask, what's the reason for removing the console version in the first place?  Isn't the whole point of having a console version that it's simpler?
Logged
Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

Sambojin

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 223
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2012, 18:42 »

I'd be fine with a graphical text mode. I'm a bit backwards in that I still prefer to play DoomRL in text mode though, no graphics. It's what I'm used to, so I probably won't ever go to the proper graphics mode (I tried it and didn't really like it). To tell you the truth, I haven't got around to setting up Win7 properly on my new box, so I'm stuck in a windowed console, which looks ugly compared to full-screen console anyway. A full screen graphical/texty would look much nicer.

The only problem I can see is setting up colours for various things. I've re-set my enemy colours and a couple of powerups in text mode, so I can see at a glance what the are. I've been shot by too many former humans and sergernts because I didn't realize they were there to not do so. Now formers are dark green and sergeants are light green. It helps tremendously with working out shot-priority and also for simply realizing they're there in the first place. Nothing worse than an enemy looking like a wall or something (colour-wise). The light ones go down first basically. Captains and commandos are similarly dark and light blue respectively.

So yeah. If colour changing is easy to set (even if it's just modding a basic text tileset) then I'm all for it.
Logged

GinDiamond

  • First Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Warrant Officer-Mancubus, trying to get all Bronze
    • View Profile
    • GinDiamond Stuff
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 07:10 »

What????"
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE the console mode!
So neat and tidy!
It brings back good memories!


I know that many roguelikes now use pseudo-console, but I really like the console. It's so small, compact, fast, and predictable. I can see everything and everyone on the map at once! Please don't take it away!
Logged
Do not muddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

AJBuwalda

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Colonial Marine
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 07:22 »

I only play with the tileset so for me it does not matter either way. I do not mind ASCII or tilesets as long as the tiles look good like in DoomRL, otherwise I rather have none at all :-P Do whatever works for you, man.
Logged

Sylph

  • Elder
  • Captain
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • Galaxy Angel
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 11:16 »

1- I'm likely to use it for remote interfaces at some point in the future.
2- i was already gutted that the gui controls were 'hidden', making elegant manipulation of the game or controls impossible (hence why I have to rely on pixel colour searches for my mouse-control apps and whatnot).
3- I'm pretty sure this would effect processor power, which is a big concern to me on some of my computers
4- Dosrecorder, which I used for a few replays (and that animated .gif of the wall that you said you liked years ago.. where was it now? ...)
5- Fear that this is the first step in what will ultimately remove the console view in favour of the tileset (which I absolutely hate, btw. Not that it's not a great tileset, simply that unanimated grid-based sprites are no more convincing than letters, but have the potential to look far more tacky, and always do to me. )


Oh, here it is!


Logged
[0.9.9.7G] Arch-Vile Marshall : [26|22|20|16|8|2]

Napsterbater

  • Elder
  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 15:32 »

Oh, here it is!
Damn, having a plasma rifle and modded red armor to do the wall with would kick ass. Can't do that in this version. Fucking Barons eat way too many shells. You're lucky at dlev7 to even have a double shotty.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 15:33 by Napsterbater »
Logged

AJBuwalda

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Colonial Marine
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2012, 00:13 »

Damn, having a plasma rifle and modded red armor to do the wall with would kick ass. Can't do that in this version. Fucking Barons eat way too many shells. You're lucky at dlev7 to even have a double shotty.
I just go with the Ammochain build... Cells for days
Logged

Napsterbater

  • Elder
  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2012, 12:19 »

Even in a UV run you typically don't get the Master trait until Hell's Armory.
Logged

GrimmC

  • Guest
Re: Reasons for text-mode interface
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 08:39 »

With the same reservations about putting forth my opinion as Tormuse, I also oppose the removal of the console version. It's very important to keep things simple. Accretion is the downfall of all great things.

To me, the whole appeal of roguelikes is that they are so simple, you could play them on a computer from 20 years ago. And yet the gameplay still engages you. It also takes a great deal of control out of the hands of the user, which is against the "roguelike social contract" as it were (at least in my mind). Finally, I also share concerns that it would be one step towards the removal of ASCII format altogether.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All