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Author Topic: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO  (Read 12597 times)

Cheesybox

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This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« on: November 28, 2012, 18:58 »

For example, Angel of Pacifism. I've gotten to level 12 or 13 on that. I understand that they're supposed to be a challenge mode or whatever, but some of them aren't even possible. Like there is no way you can beat AoPc or AoH on anything higher than HMP without save scumming or breaking the game in some fashion. I like a good challenge but I don't like trying to turn a concrete building into gravel with my forehead.

On a different note, finally figured out how to get the Dragonslayer thanks to the good folks on the Something Awful forums (eat that stupid Dragonslayer/Berserker Armor "club") and of course I was doing a AoPc run.
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yaflhdztioxo

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 20:01 »

Who wants to point him to some AoH N! runs?  I think there's one or two lying about...
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Cheesybox

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 20:16 »

Oh dude I totally want that. I hate how all my blood is inside my head right now.
But in all seriousness, some of these things make me want to go back to ranked LoL
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Tormuse

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 20:32 »

...but some of them aren't even possible. Like there is no way you can beat AoPc or AoH on anything higher than HMP without save scumming or breaking the game in some fashion.

Oooh...  Them's fightin' words!  I'm tempted to do a Nightmare AoHu run just to spite you!  :P

Oh dude I totally want that. I hate how all my blood is inside my head right now...

*Puts on a raincoat and opens an umbrella just in case*

For the record, I've won AoPc on Nightmare!

...twice!


(I don't know if the last one counts; I was dumb and used the nuke while invulnerable and then was unable to do anything to JC)

It takes a lot of patience and skill and luck, but AoPc is definitely doable at higher difficulty levels.  Anyway, I think it's good to have something seemingly too hard to do so you always have something to aim for.  I've never succeeded at AoHu Nightmare, but maybe I will one day...
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
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yaflhdztioxo

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 20:41 »

Hell, *I* have won AoPc on Nightmare.  That's one of the easiest diamond badges (and to date my only one).
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Tormuse

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 20:53 »

I just did some digging through my old mortems out of curiosity...


I died because of a careless error; I'm sure I could've done it if I'd taken a break and come back to the game when I wasn't overtired.

EDIT:  Admittedly, these are all in previous versions of the game, so the difficulty may be different now, but I still stand by my point.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 21:00 by Tormuse »
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Cheesybox

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 23:48 »

I don't get how thats even remotely possible. I've gotten screwed on previous AoPc games by getting stuck between walls and monsters and having literally no way out. I'm not even doing the GOTTA GO FAST TO THE EXIT. I try to hide behind stuff, take ToN/Ironman over HR (cause I had no luck taking HR). I just don't get how some of these are possible, even with the RNG smiling on you
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thelaptop

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 00:40 »

DoomRL games are mostly winnable, but there is no guarantee that every game you attempt is winnable.  This is a part and parcel of the whole rogue-like genre, and it comes from the fact that the "level design" is mostly controlled by a stochastic process -- there is no "overarching intelligence" that is balancing the game such that a win is virtually guaranteed.  Now, with that out of the way, let me say something about AoPc.

HR is key for AoPc.  Moving fast in-game and using side-stepping (walking diagonally) helps much more than trying to hide.  In normal games, hiding is good because you have a means of retaliation (i.e. shooting at them), but in AoPc you have nothing you can retaliate with; I remember one time where I was stuck in the Halls of Carnage sandwiched between two Hell Knights(?) and having to just wait for them to kill me because I couldn't do anything else in AoPc.

In AoPc, you must always advance, but never walk directly into the line of fire.  Diagonal walking is your friend, and once you've get the hang of that, just enjoy the many runs through hell.  It's not even a game of GOTTA GO FAST TO THE EXIT.  It is FIND THE EXIT WHILE EATING LESS DAMAGE.  Sure, it might take 20 to 50 games before you have one success, but that's just how a rogue-like is defined by.
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Cheesybox

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 02:03 »

Oh I know. I've been playing DoomRL off and on since v0.9.8.7.

I mean if I pull aggro from more than one monster, I'm going to eat shots, theres no avoiding damage. I can't search around enough to find kits and globes to be able to survive. No matter how much I play or how much I think about it and try to strategize, I can't wrap my head around a way to win AoPc
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Klear

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 02:14 »

You need HR and Dodgemaster to be able to avoid most damage. Int 1 is really useful as well, since it allows you see powerups on the level and thus allows you to plan a bit.
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Tormuse

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 05:02 »

As Laptop said, side-stepping is your friend.  I rarely walk in a straight line in any game, but especially in AoPc; alternating between two diagonal keys is the way to go.  (Also, good use of running ability)

It's also worth noting that it took many, many tries to get those above-mentioned Nightmare games before I finally had a lucky game.  It was made extra difficult by the fact that the Pacifism Diamond requirements back then restricted use of HR.  Not too long ago, I tried for the new Pacifism Gold and I remember thinking, "Holy crap!  This is so much easier with Dodgemaster!"  :)
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skarczew

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 05:26 »

(...)Like there is no way you can beat AoPc or AoH on anything higher than HMP without save scumming or breaking the game in some fashion.
It is bad that you do not believe in yourself.

On a different note, finally figured out how to get the Dragonslayer thanks to the good folks on the Something Awful forums (eat that stupid Dragonslayer/Berserker Armor "club") and of course I was doing a AoPc run.
It is even worse that you are proud of actions that sound quite scummy.
Go brag somewhere else, DS-wannabe scum.
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Cheesybox

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 06:12 »

It is even worse that you are proud of actions that sound quite scummy.
Go brag somewhere else, DS-wannabe scum.

First off, was pointing out that now that I know how to, I couldn't due to the challenge=further frustration that it has caused me (look at my previous posts related to it).
And second, I like to fully understand a game after playing it for so long, yet there's hardly any info on the wiki other than does "Tons of Damage and perma-zerk". SOOOOOORRY if I had to go elsewhere to get that info since the mods make sure that the requirements don't become common knowledge.
Now please do me a favor and take your attitude elsewhere.
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Klear

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 06:25 »

The fact that the requirements are secret make it that much satisfying if you can figure it out yourself without resorting to cheating. I don't see anything wrong with the existence of such a secret in the game.

And you shouldn't talk about attitude, after your original post:

On a different note, finally figured out how to get the Dragonslayer thanks to the good folks on the Something Awful forums (eat that stupid Dragonslayer/Berserker Armor "club") and of course I was doing a AoPc run.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 08:45 »

Jeez, people should really chill out on the whole Dragonslayer issue -_-.
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