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Author Topic: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?  (Read 6122 times)

Equality

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Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« on: January 21, 2013, 01:04 »

May be I do not understand something. But... look on challenge raitings:

Angel of Berserk - Very hard
Angel of Marksmanship - Easy
Angel of Shotgunnery - Medium
Angel of Max Carnage - Medium
Angel of Pacifism - Very hard

AoB - complete on HNTR and HMP
AoSh - complete on HNTR and HMP
AoMC - complete 3 times on HMP
AoPc - complete about 10 times on HNTR and HMP

Why AoMs are marked "Easy"??? Can't win even on HNTR difficulty. Well, can't even reach Hell. The best result was killed by Cyberdemon. Pistols game looks very hard, harder then shotgun and melee challenge. Combat pistol not guaranteed, unique pistols too rare. Standart pistols have too low damage even with SoB*3 and DG. Have anyone some tips WHY this challenge has raiting Easy?
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 05:38 »

And lol @ AoB being supposed to be very hard. That's a complete joke. It used to be that way, but I'd say "easy" is a better thing to call it now.
I haven't played this game in a long time (0994 is pretty much the last version I've really played) but I really do remember AoMr being easy as well. Most definitely easier than a standard game. Might've changed by now though.

Then again, I guess it ultimately all boils down to what stuff you've been practicing the most. The difficulty ratings are a poor representation of what the challenges are actually like.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 05:39 by ParaSait »
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2013, 06:06 »

I really do remember AoMr being easy as well. Most definitely easier than a standard game.

I have to wonder how that could be true since you can play a standard game just like AoMr AND have the option to use things like the Rocket Launcher for utility purposes. The only reason I can think otherwise is that AoMr starts us with some mods...
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2013, 06:38 »

The only reason I can think otherwise is that AoMr starts us with some mods...
That to give you an edge in the beginning when they're normally at their weakest (it can really matter) + I mean generally the max damage pistol build.
And who needs them clunky rocket launchers if you have dual super traited super modded pistols of doom that makes even arch viles shit themself? :P

I'd say if AoMr is too hard, you probably have to re-examine your build plan. In my experience, max damage is really the way to go.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 06:42 by ParaSait »
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 08:42 »

The thing is: Once you get dual gunner going, the AoMR gets relativly easy.
Before that it can be a struggle to get the game going.

As long as you now how to scout shoot well and can keep your ammo reserve up, you should have no trouble once you get your Soag to 3 and some finesse to maximize your firing speed.
The shooting speed with pistol builds can be absolutely devastating to pretty much everything. You'll pretty much be pumping your whole clip to an enemy before they get a chance to move.
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skarczew

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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2013, 08:46 »

Since AoMr is / was my favourite challenge, I can write few words :) .

AoMr used to be easy few versions ago. Atm (0.9.9.6 and upcomming 0.9.9.7) I would rank it as "medium" - mostly because of changes in AI and (master) traits.
AoB used to be hard / very hard few versions ago. Nowadays, with lots of recent changes, it has become much more easier. Berserker is a build of choice for many diamond hunters.

If you want to succeed in AoMr, I would recommend Gun Kata (helps to learn how to dodge) or Glass Cannon CatEye build.
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2013, 10:07 »

I personally started to really like Sharpshooter build. Starting with a tech mod and SoG1, you have a 0.64s firing speed right off the bat and 0.48 upon reaching level 2. It takes quite some time to kick in, but the max damage on every hit, along with 0.32 firing speed, can kill Viles before they can act at all.
I'm seriously considering trying this build on Ao100, to enjoy the full potential of WK and high finesse.
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2013, 10:15 »

I'm seriously considering trying this build on Ao100, to enjoy the full potential of WK and high finesse.
Been there, done that.  Verdict: So damn awesome.  Sharpshooter build's main weakness is early game, but when you have MSs going, it becomes much easier.  Don't forget that you can always "upgrade" the pistol to a stormbolter using the WK that you have at your disposal.
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2013, 10:17 »

Been there, done that.  Verdict: So damn awesome.  Sharpshooter build's main weakness is early game, but when you have MSs going, it becomes much easier.  Don't forget that you can always "upgrade" the pistol to a stormbolter using the WK that you have at your disposal.
That's exactly how I won my first 0997 AoMr :).
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2013, 13:53 »

What is so "easy" about AoB??? I cant even get the bronze badge for it, let alone make it far enough to get the chainsaw to have a chance at it.  All classes, starting with brute first or hellrunner first, or any other trait.  I am always dead after the first couple floors and its almost always because of the knockback from former sergeants.
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 17:25 »

Again, it bears repeating that the challenges will vary in difficulty based on how you normally play. I find Angel of Marksmanship easier than Angel of Berserk because I prefer pistols over melee anyway.
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013, 18:42 »

What is so "easy" about AoB??? I cant even get the bronze badge for it, let alone make it far enough to get the chainsaw to have a chance at it.  All classes, starting with brute first or hellrunner first, or any other trait.  I am always dead after the first couple floors and its almost always because of the knockback from former sergeants.

Before you get your chainsaw you should play passively and avoid shotgunners entirely unless you can sneak in to melee range.

I would personally start as a scout with brute (Brute first isn't optional - Berserker is a huge gamechanger, moreso than the chainsaw) and use stair-sense to take the shortest path through levels 2-4. Only fight when it's convenient.

EDIT: Oh uh, yeah. Once you're level 3 and you get the chainsaw feel free to get a bit more manly. You'll always need to be at least a little bit careful while you're not berserk or invulnerable though.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 18:46 by Thomas »
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2013, 20:22 »

What is so "easy" about AoB???
Lure them with medikits or other stuff, stand near doors.

And whats east about AoB ...well ...60% flat damage reduction, before anything, increased speed and so. And if you get something more, then it is a funny as clubbing annoying toddlers.
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2013, 20:49 »

For the record, the current (that is, in-development) challenge ratings look like this:

EASY: Shotgunnery, Max Carnage, Pacifism
MEDIUM: Berserk, Marskmanship, Red Alert
HARD: Light Travel, Impatience, 100
VERY HARD: Confidence, Darkness, Overconfidence
BLADE: Purity, Masochism, Humanity

These are based on "casual" play. Stuff changes a lot depending on difficulty setting and badge collection, but we had to place the bar somewhere. Also please note that it assumes the average difficulty of expected runs in the challenge: this is why Confidence and Overconfidence are pretty high, even though start-scumming will eventually give you a very lucky edge. Pacifism is similar to that extent, but I've found that a lot of HNTR Pacifism games are winnable in spite of errors, and the simplicity of tactics makes it that much easier for a player to learn and achieve victory.

I wouldn't be surprised if these change a little over the course of 0997 (due to a number of gameplay changes). I wrote these in before we started beta testing, however, so you can assume these to be a more accurate listing of 0996.
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Re: Is Angel of marksmanship challenge really easy?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 11:05 »

What is so "easy" about AoB??? I cant even get the bronze badge for it, let alone make it far enough to get the chainsaw to have a chance at it.  All classes, starting with brute first or hellrunner first, or any other trait.  I am always dead after the first couple floors and its almost always because of the knockback from former sergeants.
Yea in the beginning it's easy to get boned by them sergeants and demons. Your first concern should always be to get to CC first, avoid fights as much as you can. Don't forget you can move barrels and throw knives at em, to create alternate routes (two barrels should be enough for a guaranteed hole AFAIR). And I dunno if this still applies, but giftdropping medpack is or was a godsend exploit too.
Then once you got that chainsaw you can start to gain a lot of xp which will make your character a lot tougher as well. Try to get as much xp as you can, but remember that until you get LS, always try to assess whether you can deal with the current situation or not.
When you get the LS, it's freakin' party time. You're virtually unstoppable unless you do something really stupid. This is why I love doing AoB. It's tough in the beginning, but it gets so deliciously rewarding later on. :P
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