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[Nick]

I think Double or Combat Shotgun should have another assembly depending on player traits rather than on mod packs. If you have no Chainsaw, no Nanopack etc at ~50lev it's a good time to lay your bet on this trait. Maybe 2nd level of Shottyman + some assembly should give one a shotgun with a focused blast, fast reload and the armor piercing option (like Plasma Shrapnel). So shotgun shells will help the "ammo starvation".
For example, SM2 can allow one to find vulnerable spots on enemies. Without this trait, this assembly is not really useful and can probably be less effective than others. With this trait and with the last [P], it rocks like Jackhammer (but should not work the similar way; I speak about overall effectiveness).

"Ammo-regen assembly with common mods" is TOO easy. The way to save yourself must be require good game knowledge and decision done on time, to develop this trait and assembly the effective shrapnel-user.

Speaking about the normal game: I had the Longinus Spear twice. Both times I managed to get to that damned Assholy Cathedral with a nuke and Inv power-up still working. KARABARABOOOOOM!!! and the Spear is mine. It's useful for non-melee fighters and allows to save ammo. Is it imba or just a proper award for being that lucky?

[thelaptop]

Speaking about the normal game: I had the Longinus Spear twice. Both times I managed to get to that damned Assholy Cathedral with a nuke and Inv power-up still working. KARABARABOOOOOM!!! and the Spear is mine. It's useful for non-melee fighters and allows to save ammo. Is it imba or just a proper award for being that lucky?

Suure you get the LS, but you don't get the achievement for beating it if I remember correctly.

[Evilpotatoe]

I didn't play much AO100 games, but I think lack of ammo in the end is a real problem.

btw, if you found any nano, or just a single nuclear plasma rifle, you're quite safe, but this is only luck related, and when it has such a big impact, I really hate depending on luck.

Needing to manage ammo is part of the game, of course, but I think it's way too random in AO100.
Why not just increase the size, or number of ammo stacks in late AO100 ?

[skarczew]

Later Ao100 is indeed too ammo-starving. If you haven't found none ammo-regen weapons (or nano), several levels without formers and/or arachnos and you are screwed. Except if you are ammo-chain or melee-heavy, probably.

That is why you need to introduce some kind of strategy into this game :) .

[skarczew]

Is it imba or just a proper award for being that lucky?

Luck is a big factor in DoomRL.

[Equality]

Later Ao100 is indeed too ammo-starving.

I think we have a lot of rockets and power cells here... arachnotrons, mancubi and revenants becomes common. So, melee, rocket launcher and plasma rifles )

[tylor]

If you use rockets again something that drop rockets, you usually blow up rockets they drop. So, mancubi is not a reliable ammo source. And arachnos are scarce except "lucky" caves.
Also, nightmare mobs need much more hits to kill.

Why do you think most Ao100 are ammochain?

[AlterAsc]

Yes, Ao100 is ammo-starving. And that's why you should plan ahead.
And yes, Ao100 imposes some limitation on character building. Shotgun builds have it tough.
But that's no surprise, you know what's ahead of you when you choose that challenge.

[tylor]

But that's no surprise, you know what's ahead of you when you choose that challenge.

Problem is, I don't. It's a gamble on drops. It has it's own charm, but I would like to have "long mode" where I'm not limited to few builds and  not screwed after three hours of playing just because RNG.

[Nick]

If you use rockets again something that drop rockets
***
Why do you think most Ao100 are ammochain?

Juggler rules. A foreplay with some rockets and than !!PWN!! with Gatling[P].
I think Marine/Ammochain and Tech/Scavenger are balanced.

[AlterAsc]

Problem is, I don't

You do. You know that you have to pass 100 levels and that requires a lot of ammo.
And pretty much any build can be modified (modifiing as taking additional traits) to pass Ao100.

[Uitë]

That's why on every one of my successful Ao100 runs, I've gone Sharpshooter with a 3P-modded combat pistol. 23 damage per shot means that a stack of 100 bullets goes a long way, and captains aren't that few and far between. And the combat pistol is common enough that you're very likely to run in to it at some point during such a long game. Until then, a storm pistol works very nicely too.

[Equality]

I think Marine/Ammochain and Tech/Scavenger are balanced.

Ammochain looks like a cheat - 1 ammo -> 6-8 shots :)
Scavenger not balanced at all - we can disassemble ONLY weapons. So, a lot of traits wasted, blocked Th, DG and Ber and ... what we can do with that medical armor, Maleks armor, 2x phaseshifting boots and so on? Nothing! seek weapons for disassemble, drop rare armor if not useful. And as a rule we gain almost useless firestorm mod - so, disassemble and drop away this junk

[AlterAsc]

Scavenger is not wasted. WK2 is useful, EE2 and Int are useful too.
TH, DG and Ber blocked is not a big deal. Surely you can't go pure melee, but if you want melee, you don't aim for MSc usually.

[Evilpotatoe]

For the few Ao100 I played atm, I always went for scavenger.
WK 2 looks like a must have for such a run, and I think Int2 is a good investment too.

I don't "rush" the mastery, though, since it's not immediately useful, but improving chances of getting good mods, and thus, becoming overpowered, is THE best way to go.

Also, I hope something will be done to make it able to use not only armors, but also melee weapons... and make the dissasembled mods less random, e.g., by tweaking weights of mods depending on what has been already obtained with disassemble. Currently, with some bad luck, you won't even get one nano in 100 levels, which doesn't look normal to me.


About ammochain, I think it's overpowered (AO100 or not). What would people think of using 2 ammo per volley ? I'm sure it still would be one of the best available traits.