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[Lord Typh]

Hey, just curious on this but I recently got DoomRL.  And I was curious on just what might be the best way to go about getting something that would classify as a more 'long-range', 'rapid-fire' character.  ANy suggestions on that?

[Ashannar]

If being long-range is a high priority for you, then you will probably want to get Cateye over Ammochain. Cateye isn't necessarily a rapid-fire-specific master, but it doesn't block you from building for rapid fire, and it compliments one nicely. Ammochain is specifically a rapid-fire build, but it blocks eagle-eye, so it isn't long range per se, although it's still effective at range. With Cateye, you need to watch your ammo carefully. It's not as bad as it sounds, though. In practice it usually means that you need to carry a rapid-fire weapon that uses 9mm ammo and another rapid-fire weapon that uses plasma, so you can draw from both ammo types.

A nice build might look something like

Int->Int->SoB->SoB->TH->EE->MCe->TH->EE->SoB->Fin->Fin

Where you would be relying on a shotgun until you got a level or two in SoB. I'm fond of double-intuition starts on my rapidfire scouts, but you could always get SoB/TH/EE/Fin earlier instead for the extra emphasis on offense.

[Lord Typh]

Which class would work best for that, if I may ask?  And what weapons?

I'm wanting to try a more squishy guy for this, possibly evasive with the afformentioned long-range abilities.

Woudl a Chaingun and Rocketlauncher be good for that?

[Ashannar]

Cateye is a scout-only master trait, so you'd pick a scout. Scouts also fire weapons and move 10% faster than other classes, so it's a small boost to your offense from the get-go. Yes, initially you'll be using a chaingun, and later a plasma gun too. You might find special variants of these weapons along the way, like a mini-gun or a nuclear plasma rifle, which you'll definitely want to grab if you see. There are assemblies you can make as well, but I don't know if you want anything spoiled or not. (Every time you beat the armory, you learn a new assembly, so you can earn them yourself if you like.)

By the way, yeah, you should definitely carry a shotgun and a rocket launcher along with you as well. The shotgun will help out a lot in the early game for radar shooting (and it's just generally a better option than a chaingun until you get some traits behind you). The rocket launcher does massive damage, can reshape levels (useful for completing certain levels and for tactics), gib corpses (useful against arch-viles) and it also allows you to rocket jump, which can get you out of some mighty scrapes.

[Lord Typh]

Alright.

Is it still alright to use the Shotgun?  At least for the early-game and for the Hell's Arena segment?

I find myself liking to go there a lot, so I can get the extra experience.  And blue Armor and missiles and a large health kit are good too.

Woudl the rocket launcher be good for a standby weapon?

Edit:  Ignore the last part, I"m a blind idiot.  But I am curious.  How is it possible to strafe and shoot?  I'm not totally sure how to do that after my quick glance at the controls and such.

[MaiZure]

Shotguns are great for the early game, especially for scouting out of sight enemies. Rapids begin to overcome the shotgun's usefulness shortly after Hell's Arena.

Rocket Launcher is always a great utility weapon.
Don't want to use a door because you know there's something sinister behind it? No problem, the RL will make a door anywhere you need. Also great for avoiding acid/lava rooms.

[Ashannar]

There isn't strafing in this game, but it does have an interesting dodge mechanic.

Let's say an imp is directly to your west. If you move either north or south, this will grant you a 50% intrinsic chance to dodge its fireball. Beware the resulting explosion, though. If you had moved east or west instead, then you wouldn't get the dodge chance.

But no, you can't fire 'while' moving. Dodging is something you do to get behind cover. Definitely read up on corner shooting if you haven't already.

Also, I don't want to make it sound like you have to get Cateye to be able to hit stuff at long range. You can build any way you like, as long as you get two Eagle Eye in there somewhere. I only suggest Cateye because it allows you to see farther than normal, which allows you to be accurate at a greater range than any other build.

Also, in general, it is very wise to carry a variety of weapons (as long as you aren't playing a challenge game that restricts your weapons). The rocket launcher is as close to a "buildless" weapon as there is in DoomRL and the shotgun is not far behind.

[Lord Typh]

Yeah, I saw what Cateye did so I know what it does.  Didn't immediately think that it was osmething I should get though.

Another question.  Would it be better for me to go for the evasion thing first?  Or the Accuracy thing first?

[Ashannar]

With rapid-fire builds, you generally want to focus on damage, damage, damage. The point is that you kill things so quickly you don't even need to evade. You want to focus on being able to fire your weapon quickly (Finesse), hit things (Eagle Eye), and do a lot of damage (Son of a Bitch, Trigger Happy). Hellrunner and the like can be passed over pretty safely in a rapid-fire build.

The reason I like to throw Intuition 2 into the mix is that it is the ultimate form of damage mitigation (and Cateye requires Int 1 anyway), worth delaying your damage for (in my opinion) but not everyone would agree.

[Lord Typh]

Alright.

What would be best in a more Melee/close rangebuild?  I was thinking of having that as another route to go.

[Ashannar]

For melee, Brute is your bread and butter and Berserker is your trump card. Brute increases your melee damage very nicely and Berserker boosts it to insane levels and keeps you alive. The key to playing melee is to tip-toe around until you get ahold of the chainsaw in the Chained Court special level. Then you'll be able to rip up guys left and right. Most people who play a melee character will end up getting the melee master trait, because it's hard to enhance a melee build further without one.

But as always, there's no reason not to take guns with you unless you're playing Angel of Berserk or going for a Strongman badge. (With Strongman, you can still use guns to blow holes in walls and stuff, but be careful!)

[LuckyDee]

Not much left to add here, I see, but I'd still like to try:

I think that, no matter what type of game you play, you pick one master trait to aim for. On very rare occasions (due to finding some exotic special weapon or some such) you'll want to divert from that path, but otherwise these masters have enough to add to build towards these in a fairly straight line.

Since master traits also exclude the availability of certain skills, and you know you'll only have so many points to spend, eventually, you can more or less plan out the entire course beforehand. To use the Cateye example, I'd take INT-INT-SOB-SOB-TH-MCe, since INT2 provides a huge advantage early on, benefits extra from the extended range MCe brings and you'll need at least 5 other skills before you can take MCe anyhow (or is this outdated?).
For MVm I'd prefer BRU-BRU-BER-BAD-BAD-MVm; again 6 skill required, you'll want BER a.s.a.p. and the extra level BAD allows you to immediately start boosting your health up to 200% once you get MVm.

With this in mind, you can also make a mental shopping list regarding what weapons you'll want to take. For pistols, SOG is a must (as I believe is a master trait), so anything that excludes the use of this will generally be a bad idea. Melee is worthless without BRU, so builds that exclude this tend to rely on another backup weapon.

So, barring any restrictions placed by challenge mode or badge hunting, you base a primary weapon on your master trait - possibly a secondary too - and pick another as backup. Shotguns are versatile enough to support almost anything, rocket launchers can work miracles as well, as long as you manage to keep out of the blast (and not blow up useful stuff in the process). BFGs are a mixed blessing, but I tend to keep one handy as well.

[Evilpotatoe]

But no, you can't fire 'while' moving

Isn't it the purpose of the new "gunrunner" scout mastery ?

I didn't try it yet (not picking my target doesn't look very appealing to me), but I think it can be quite valuable

[Ashannar]

Huh, I hadn't noticed that! I'll definitely have to look into it.

[LuckyDee]

Isn't it the purpose of the new "gunrunner" scout mastery ?

I didn't try it yet (not picking my target doesn't look very appealing to me), but I think it can be quite valuable

Hey! I didn't even notice that one. Good to see Running Man has been replaced with something that sounds worthy of a try. Since it requires DM, you should actually be able to focus on evasion while the RNG takes care of the shooting for you. And although you technically cannot pick your target, you should of course be able to lend chance a hand by making the right moves....