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Opinions on new special levels needed!

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SageAcrin:
As someone that started with this version and has no idea what the special levels were really like beforehand...

Arena: Seems fairly balanced for what it is. Total deathtrap on N! for my money, but considering the badges for it, I think that's intentional enough.

Chained Court: Enjoyable, I generally find it a bit easy, but it gives some basic, reliable resources. Good stuff.

(Un)Chained Court: Somewhat harder. Haven't tried this on N!, see comment about the Arena being a deathtrap, but lower than that I still can't say I find it ridiculously hard.

Military Base: Relatively easy, but sorta easy to screw up too. Elite Commandos are ridiculously and randomly dangerous, which seems okay until they fire a Napalm Launcher at you(Had that happen on UV once. Lost 70% of my life from one shot and had to Phase in order to not die instantly.). Loot is pretty random in practice(very breakable crates oriented) but the mods are always nice.

Phobos Lab: Generally worse than base, as noted. I find it pretty manageable on UV and below, but the main loot to me is the extra two large Medkits...and on N! I have not found a way to deal with the Nightmare Demon hallway of "You're never moving, are you?" doom without burning healing, so this makes the rewards rather bad there. It's generally easier than Base on lower difficulties, I find, but the rewards are pretty meh overall. Also, I hate the scripted loss of Envirosuit, it's out of place and basically just a cheapshot. Easy to avoid the cheapshot by picking up both suits and just using the second one after it, to boot.

Hell Armory: A bit easy, good rewards, and if I need spare armors, it has some. Seems pretty good. The setup is generally much safer than the alternative, I find, though it's very easy to screw up if you're not cautious. Layout is far more conducive to fighting Shamblers even ignoring the fact that you only fight one.

Deimos Lab: Double Shambler fight is far, far harder, but it does have healing...that's hidden and easily missed in a casual run, and requires walking through acid to get to unless you manage some good rocket bank shots. Hiding said Supercharges seems strange. Lower end loot is breakable crates+mods, so it's random if it's better or not than Hell's Armory. Honestly I think this is pretty balanced, though the Shambler fight definitely can go out of control easily due to the open area and the fact that there's two.

The Wall: Eh. Backpack is neat but you can really get by without it, and cutting through a bunch of Hell Knights/Barons isn't my idea of fun(unless I somehow have an Onyx or Nano armor.). It's basically one subjective reward and one solid launcher, but you could probably get by with the launcher you had if you could get into The Wall at all. See others comments about there being more Missile Launchers in the game, too. Would really be a good place to put a new missile weapon if you wanted to make one.

Containment Area: More fun than the Wall. Not really that different, but I find fighting out of an enclosed situation more entertaining than fighting into a bunch of enemies. Would like it if the Backpack wasn't in an area where you can get shot by an enemy and have it destroyed(This was my unfun experience the first time I entered. There's a similar, but less easy to solve, problem with the Backpack at the Wall getting blown up by the rockets that the setup encourages you to use, but that's a much harder fix so eh.). Loot's kinda ehn to me still.

Abyssal Plains: Straight up slugfest with solid loot. Feels like a more logical place for the Missile Launcher than Wall/Containment. Standard but interesting enough. The Agony Elemental fight varies a lot depending on what it decides to do and your build, but it generally ends up not being so risky that I mind the being locked in part.

City of Skulls: Massive ammo drain and not worth it for any builds that don't have heavy AoE. Has some ammo that probably won't replenish what it cost. Skulls as rewards kinda suck unless you're planning on doing Mortuary/Limbo. Then again, a BFG works decently well for that too, I believe, and Carnage/Spider always shows up. Basically free EXP for shotgun builds and not much else. Could really use some spicing up.

Halls of Carnage: Interesting area that isn't too challenging, but has forced time pressure. Making people play outside of their comfort zone is cool. :) Loot is worth the effort. Read up on the N! version, and am rather intimidated by it, though. Definitely seems a huge spike there compared to UV.

Spider's Lair: Kinda randomly deathtrap-y. On average it doesn't seem too bad, but every time I go in I'm afraid I'll dodge a little less than I should, or that they'll get better RNG than they should. Still, the concept is interesting and the loot/EXP are good for a short but intense fight, seems like.

Unholy Cathedral: Melee builds only, they get good stuff from it. Simple enough. Yes, I know it's not melee builds only, strictly speaking, but that's way too much work for my tastes otherwise. :)

Vaults: Weird area. Basically best for those who spoil themselves, but even if you do and know how it works, and have the way to make it work, the loot's really random. Still, fine enough.

Mortuary: Death trap area with a cool reward, basically optional super area, cool enough.

Limbo: Never seem to get this. The few times I have involved passing through it invinco or nuking it. I know the layout but I can't give a good opinion on it.

Lava Pits: Ditto Limbo except I've never actually drawn this when I intended to do a bunch of lava walking. Go fig.

Mt. Erebus: Did complete this once. Decent enough for what it is, but what it is basically is less difficult and more specific preparation. Generally don't like bothering, though; the loot's mostly centered around the Lava Element, which mostly is for enabling a Full...which I often lack the other tools needed to do, and may get the tools to replace the Element randomly anyways. Works for what it is, though, which is a way of enabling Fulls without letting everyone get them easily...

GinDiamond:
I like the new special levels, but I feel that the Deimos Lab needs to be rebalanced (or at least redesigned, the wierd lever placement and walls leads to much confusion of where certain enemies are coming from).

What's up with all these missile launcher rewards? Please bring back a couple BFG's and at least one nuclear plasma rifle!

appuru:
Hell's Arena: Not a new special level, but even if only for certain modes (say AoB), add some guaranteed random water generation to help dispose corpses on N!.

Military Base: West side entrance has a pretty wild design, it's really hard to tell when an enemy has LoS or not in the entrance area. Having this kind of problem in the most dangerous choke point of the level is a great way to eat a napalm rocket and die instantly, but maybe that's the point.

Phobos Lab: Need to be able to aggro nightmare demons without them biting your face off. Rockets work OK for this actually, but things get a bit unbalanced in challenge modes. Improving the rewards while keeping things as is would be cool, too.

Deimos Lab: Everything is easier to clear except the shamblers, since you can wipe out most of the enemies at the warp room where you start off, just have a little patience. In contrast, hell's armory may have cacodemons floating all around you in lava, and they can take a while to pick off. The extra gear and supercharges in Deimos Lab should be enough for the enemies when you pull the levers. The double shamblers are a problem but you should have a fresh armor, supercharge and possibly a new weapon + mods handy for them.

Abyssal Plains: Cool level, though I consider this easier thanks to the health packs and powerups. Also, who's trapping who in the middle? I *want* all those lost souls/pain elementals/agony elemental lined up in front of me so I can erase them more easily :3 There's no reason you shouldn't be ready for the middle portion considering all the stuff you find on this level, though it could be problematic depending on the challenge mode.

Limbo: Feels easier than mortuary, the lava works much more in your favor by providing less stuff to be revived (at least in the middle). Once you secure the middle you can slowly pepper either side's arch-viles to death with rockets or ammochain rapidfire without needing to draw any bridges. The possibility of reviving nightmare enemies is scary, but the map layout simply works too well in your favor. Even on N! I don't think I've died yet after clearing the initial ambush.

grommile:

--- Quote from: appuru on April 17, 2013, 10:59 ---Hell's Arena: Not a new special level, but even if only for certain modes (say AoB), add some guaranteed random water generation to help dispose corpses on N!.
--- End quote ---
I don't think an opinion of the form "make N! easier" is going to get much traction, somehow :)

appuru:

--- Quote from: grommile on April 17, 2013, 11:39 ---I don't think an opinion of the form "make N! easier" is going to get much traction, somehow :)

--- End quote ---

This isn't about making it easier necessarily. Your options are severely limited in AoB, to the point where if you want to try clearing hell's arena on N!, really you're just startscumming level 2 for some combination of medpacks/armor/berserk packs. I wouldn't mind if hell's arena were actually *harder* as long as you're given a chance to apply more strategy in Hell's Arena and rely just a little less on RNG the level before.

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