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Author Topic: Opinions on new special levels needed!  (Read 22676 times)

AlterAsc

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2013, 10:46 »

Died in Containment area during my N!/100% run.
Easier than the wall? No way.
Suddenly there's ton of enemies behind you, no cover in front of you, and you're pretty much screwed if you don't have a phase device. Perhaps with missile launcher and several tons of rockets it's possible, other than that i see no way out.
Compare that to the Wall, where you choose how you're going to fight and always can back out if things go wrong.

Phobos Lab is much harder then Military Base. N! demons can rip doomguy in pieces extremely fast anyway and here they're stuck, meaning that you need to come close to get them and uh-oh, they're already eating. Non-melee builds have it incredibly tough.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 11:03 by AlterAsc »
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Ashannar

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2013, 15:58 »

Surely there must be a safe way to get the demons' attention from a distance. A rocket, maybe?
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LuckyDee

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2013, 22:40 »

Although the topic is about the new special levels, I feel I must add that the normal level progress has been greatly improved as well. New creations mainly seem to be in the last 8 levels, in which I've seen some very interesting new designs (the islands in the lava lake for example, connected by little walkways, and the new barracks type levels, with the less rectangular layout).

Barrel distribution seems to be more balanced too, more fuel and acid on deeper levels instead of just lava. I do seem to be getting a high amount of barrel-packed levels (not the extreme ones, but still), though this might just the luck of the draw.

All in all an improvement that is not to be underestimated.
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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 01:08 »

complete one more game and start think that new special levels position (wall, HoC, CoS) ruine game completely :( maybe on N! it is not so, but I can't win on N!

On ITYTD-HNTR-HMP difficulties now I enters special levels only for more experience, but not for "I need win here because I need reward for next". IMO need rearrange them again, and not pair HoC with spiders. Like next:

Phobos:
1. Hell Arena at 2-3
2. Chained Court at 3-4
3. (not on ITYTD) Military Base (unpaired!) at 5-6
4. The Wall/Containment Area at level 7 just before Anomaly

Deimos:
1. Halls of Carnage in current edition (no Supercharge, just large health) at D2-3
2. (not on ITYTD) Deimos Lab with 3 layouts. If both Arena and CC uncompleted, =Phobos lab. If any 1 of them completed, = Hell Armory. If both completed = Deimos Lab. Well, "Phobos lab" need some changes like random rare armor and weapon - not just blue + combat shotgun. At D4
3. City of Sculls/Abyssal plains and no Agony Elemental on ITYTD at D5
4. Spiders Lair (ouch, please return nuclear plasma OR give nuke as a reward :'( ) at D6
(btw new spiders lair layout good only for shotgunners/melee. A lot of walls - rapid weapons and rocket launchers sucks here)

Hell:
1. (not on ITYTD) UC
2. (not on ITYTD) Vaults
3. (not on ITYTD) Mortuary/Limbo
4. Lava Pits/Mt Erebus

7 special levels on ITYTD and 12 on more difficult games.

What are you think about?
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LuckyDee

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 01:20 »

new special levels position (wall, HoC, CoS) ruine game completely :( maybe on N! it is not so, but I can't win on N!

Why does this ruin things? Personally I think moving the Wall is much better, since now I don't hesitate to enter when previously I'd sometimes skip it; CoS/AP is a nice trade (don't really care about Agony Elementals anymore, regardless of difficulty level), and I haven't seen the new HoC, but SL is nice and in the right place, as far as I'm concerned. And I don't even play UV, let alone N!.

What exactly is so bad about it?
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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 01:38 »

Quote
What exactly is so bad about it?

Phobos Lab is just a 2 mod packs for free + experience. Anybody wants that blue armor and combat shotgun? No? Ammo? No place in inventory?
Anomaly becomes harder without Missile Launcher
The Wall at new position too easy.
No BFG when enters CoS.
kill Spiders is a part of badges, but level not guaranteed - you can again and again get HoC
HoC at new position too easy. Just kill'em all and get BFG for free.
no nuclear plasma = no guaranteed full win (nuclear BFG on Mortuary can be destroyed by explosion :( )

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LuckyDee

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 02:15 »

Phobos Lab is just a 2 mod packs for free + experience. Anybody wants that blue armor and combat shotgun? No? Ammo? No place in inventory?

Same goes for the Military Base, I guess. I think mod packs (plus a load of different standard weapons and armours to use them on) are pretty good rewards in the early game.

Anomaly becomes harder without Missile Launcher

Not much, IMO. On ITYTD a RL took care of the Brothers before they could lay a finger on me, on HNTR a tactical shotgun (on a Shotty build) was more than enough. Depends on the game you're playing, but in most cases it's not that bad I think.

The Wall at new position too easy.

Possibly. What about the Containment Thingy? Haven't seen that one yet.

No BFG when enters CoS.

Same thing with the missile launcher, depends heavily on the game whether this makes any difference.

kill Spiders is a part of badges, but level not guaranteed - you can again and again get HoC
HoC at new position too easy. Just kill'em all and get BFG for free.

You're bound to run into the Spider's Lair at some point, not that big a deal IMO. HoC (at lower difficulties) was already more or less too easy. Don't know how much difference it makes.

no nuclear plasma = no guaranteed full win (nuclear BFG on Mortuary can be destroyed by explosion :( )

I've been playing for over a year and have never even considered going for a full win. I don't even know whether there are badges that require you to land one. I can understand the added charm, but I don't see problems in running the risk that it's an impossibility.

What standard difficulty do you play on, btw? Since I'll be stuck on HNTR for a little while, I really like the fact that the special levels seem less Herculean than they did before; I feel more confident running around and thus have better chances at improving my game...
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Trar

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 06:43 »

I managed to play some of the new levels (and some of the old). Pretty cool stuff:

Phobos Labs: Shooting gallery with free loot, but not exactly a cakewalk. I like this one.

Military Base: Also good, but I got my ass kicked by the elites. :[

Deimos Labs: Good until I opened the inner central walls. Two shamblers is evil. (disclaimer: i have never successfully fought a shamber). Barely made it out alive.

Hell Arena: Still a decent challenge as always.

Chained Court: I like the new design. I played with and without the Arena Master (killed him on an AoSh run but didn't get to use the staff).

City of Skulls: I don't mind replacing the BFG9000 with the Missile Launcher, even if it makes things harder (I killed the elemental anyway).
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Radagast

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2013, 03:38 »

Ok let's see:

All my experience is from UV till now:

New Hell's Arena:
Pretty much nothing changes, only that the new layout makes it somewhat easier to cornershoot. It's easier but the fact that it's on 2nd level and not 3rd (not sure if that's always the case) actually balances it somehow. No complaints.

Chained Court:
Pretty much easy as always since you got the hang of it from earlier games. Liked the fact that the modpacks now are harder to get, and they are also random I assume? I do miss the agility mods for tactical boots, but I guess random is fine too.. No complaints on this really.

Phobos Lab:
Great unique layout. I liked it. Nightmare Demons were REALLY scary at this point in the game, and they were too many. The surprise when returning from a lever was also terrifying with the walls that opened up. Had it not been for Cateye it would be certain death. Quite hard without a phase device for so early in the game... Scared the shit out of me at that point, so it's obviously nice in terms of challenge at least.

Deimos Lab:
Great work too. Loved all the level  though the 2 shamblers are a bit overboard especially for lowest difficulties ( I can sympathize with complaints in HNTR/HMP) but I guess since it is an optional level, the challenge is great since the reward is about some of the best mod packs in the game. Some builds will have it incredibly hard against the two regenerating fiends.
At least they can be skipped along with their rewards.

The Wall
This was moved to level 11 from 7. It was a hard special level, but the reward of backpack plus launcher always made it tempting. Now that it's on 11, not only is it much much easier since it is the exact same level, but also makes the player run out of ammo in a way, so that city of skulls right after, becomes harder to visit. Can't say I really liked this change 11 seems kinda late. Also makes the anomaly harder since no missile launcher there now.

Halls of Carnage:
Quite hard. Probably the biggest difference by far from earlier version. The lava runs like crazy (srsly!), the monsters have doubled or tripled, there is no time to do anything. Had it not been for my antigr. boots & MCe, I would have probably died before getting to the exit. Too dangerous without a homing device.

Vaults:
Nothing changed seemed like the same thing. I guess it's ok it didn't really need any changes though I find it quite strange, the fact that there are so many Archviles on the left and they practically never have anything to resurrect. By the time you get to the revevants on the right the Archviles are already dead. This makes it quite easy in fact and silly to boot. Monsters should be mixed to have proper difficulty. I wonder why no-one mentioned this.

Limbo:
Great, nice idea. I do think though that's it's very easy compared to Mortuary. The reason is simple. Due to loads of lava, the monsters don't have that much space to move and resurrect. Furthermore you can knockback most of them in lava. I also assume the corpses are much fewer than in Mortuary which is natural due to lava once again. I entered the level and had 6 archviles from the beginning surrounding me. While this makes it a hard entrance, 2 bfg shots from the get-ago practically finish the whole level this way. Or at least most of it. Isn't that right?

Mount Erebus:
No complaints pretty much a great alternative to Lava pits. Liked it for the time being.

Cyberdemon/Mastermind:
Didn't notice any serious differences but maybe it's just me.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 04:02 by Radagast »
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Sradac

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2013, 06:11 »

So far the only new / changed one's I have been in are chained court, phobos lab, military base and abyssal plains.

All are very good, very well thought out.  I'd like to see more nostalgia ones like phobos lab and military base.  Also, I see we have new tiles all over the place.  I dont think we have seen any of the "organic" tiles from Inferno with like, intestines for walls and skin for floors.  Is there a reason for that?
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Sradac

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2013, 06:17 »

Mt Erebus was always my all time favorite Doom 1 map, I cant wait to find it.
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Trar

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2013, 08:00 »

Mt Erebus was always my all time favorite Doom 1 map, I cant wait to find it.
I'm glad to see more throwback stuff as well.
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BrewFall

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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2013, 10:24 »

As a preface I am on HNTR playing an Ammochain Build. Also, I am loving it!

Phobos Base -
Certainly felt tense when I played it, but not too hard. Fits right into the game.

Deimos Base -
The two shamblers were quite a shock! After the level name turned blue I didn't realize that more enemies could appear. On a higher difficulty I certainly would have died, but it will probably be a real challenge for the better players. I am seeing that melee players are not having trouble with these guys, and shotgun players are. Perhaps if their armor was reduced and their health and regen rate was increased it would balance it for everyone. The two sniper mods I found here upgraded my nuclear plasma rife and my missle launcher, making me feel like a real badass! I also found an onyx mod later on, and the Trigun! Is it just me or is there more rare stuff spawning now?

Containment Area -
Seemed pretty easy! Of course I am feeling a little OP by this point so it is hard to judge. Is there any way to get through it without a rockets?

Spider's Lair - I like the new layout aesthetically. I didn't use any new tactics here, but it seems good.

... I've made it to hell now, but haven't seen any more special levels yet. I like the updated normal level layouts.

Basically, great job!
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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2013, 08:27 »

I've finally got to see Phobos labs. Int 2 and double shotgun made it much easier, though Angel of Masochism made it more difficult and I died there. Still, I like it. Very doomy, and nice use of acid. I like it much more than the Military Base.
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Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2013, 18:29 »

This isn't really related to this topic but:

I  found that I can abuse the phaseshift suit pretty bad. If I get the suit, and onyx mod the armor, I'm practically immortal. AND I can move WAY faster than wearing, say, Enviroboots/cerberus boots. I hate to admit it, but it kind of abuses the game.
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