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Author Topic: Reloading with ammo on the ground  (Read 6487 times)

zenfur

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Reloading with ammo on the ground
« on: April 23, 2013, 11:13 »

I would really want this feature, esp for Archangel of travel. It is just very bothersome to drop sth, pick up ammo, reload, drop ammo, pick up sth. I think I'd also use this not only in angles of travel, but in most of runs, as when I cleared the level I usually restock, and instead reload & pickup I could just reload with ammo on the ground.

Simple, makes things easier and doesn't affect the game too much. If you in some point doubt that it would affect the balance and you want to nerf it, make the reloading time longer (like takes 2x reloading time or 5x on AoT).

In my opinion it should be natural in doomrl that when you reload, firstly you check ammo on the ground, than ammo box and lastly backpack. Prioritising floor ammo at reloading would solve the problem but would make unable to change it reload time, so in the latter case it could be other combination like ctrl + R.

Of course this change shouldn't affect Shottyman trait. It would seem stupid to jump around and collect ammo shooting :D

So, whatddayathink?
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SageAcrin

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 11:40 »

Yeah, there ought to be some way to reload off the ground.

I'd also like to see reload be able to reload from Ammochains/Shell Boxes/etc. in your inventory, if you don't have one equipped and have no normal shots of that kind around, without the fast reload time.

This is a (very small) gain to versatility, but in a way that's far more logical than having a large chunk of ammo in a well stored container and magically be completely unable to access it without readying it... but you can dig around in a pile of loose shells in your pockets just fine. It's just weird, you know?
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Equality

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 11:44 »

I think that using something from ground from one side good but from other... About 3 times use lava element - I want free one inventory item and use envirosuit or medpack actually. But at this point totally forget about new feature. And how about situation when you step on ammo, need reload but can't move (without get a hit or lost good position) and do not want lose time x2 per stupid "reload from ground" having ammobox equipped?
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Nick

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 13:54 »

I think "u"sing ammo must load it into your main or prepared gun, if any. Be it "u"sing from your inventory or ground. Time = time to pick up + time to use from inventory (=reload). And maybe ammo packs should work the same way, but "use" control is already used for equipping them so I don't know how it should be controlled.
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zenfur

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 15:52 »

I think "u"sing ammo must load it into your main or prepared gun, if any. Be it "u"sing from your inventory or ground. Time = time to pick up + time to use from inventory (=reload). And maybe ammo packs should work the same way, but "use" control is already used for equipping them so I don't know how it should be controlled.

Great idea. I don't think it's necessary with ammo packs. I would fully enjoy such implementation.

Regarding the previous post... As I said, IF one want to reload from the ground and community want it to be longer than a normal reloading that wouldn't be an option, and some additional way of reloading should be possible: I suggested alt + r, but Nick's suggestion to use "u" is better imho.
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 16:11 »

I really miss this too. Not as important as using from ground was, but would still be very handy.

Also, am I the only one which would want overall better reload system, including
 - dual reload as a separate command, not as "an alternate reload, on some guns".
 - a way to reload from inventory when a box is equipped, so that you don't have to un-equipp your box, reload, re-equipp your box to save it when you're not in a hurry.
 - a way to swap something directly in your box's slot (currently, you can't swap to the box... so, you need to drop it, swap, equipp something, and grab your box again... is this annoyance intended ???)
 - a way to pump&reload combat shotty in one action. Currently, I guess reloading takes .2 + 1 seconds, unless your clip is empty ? :/    It could replace current's useless full reload.
 - and ability to reload from the ground, of course.
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Nick

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2013, 16:45 »

 - dual reload as a separate command, not as "an alternate reload, on some guns".

You always fire both pistols if you're Dualgunner. You can't control it. Why one can control the single/dual reload? I think right-click should reload empty weapon(s) and leave non-empty as it is, and "r" should reload both dual-wielded guns. Speaking about that old balance suggestion: I think DG2 should allow Jackal, Blaster, Beretta and Hyperblaster. And maybe Taurus revolver which should use shotgun shells, speaking about a "shotgun pistol".

 - a way to reload from inventory when a box is equipped, so that you don't have to un-equipp your box, reload, re-equipp your box to save it when you're not in a hurry.

That's "u"sing ammo from "i"nventory is for. BTW I love Shottyman trait for this. When you fire your shotgun and run, you waste your inv. When you stand and quickly shoot, you use the box and have better fire rapidity.

 - a way to swap something directly in your box's slot (currently, you can't swap to the box... so, you need to drop it, swap, equipp something, and grab your box again... is this annoyance intended ???)

+1. Swapping to a box just making you temporarily unable to shoot until you select a weapon or swap back. I don't think it's THAT big problem so swapping to your box should be disallowed as it is now.

 - a way to pump&reload combat shotty in one action. Currently, I guess reloading takes .2 + 1 seconds, unless your clip is empty ? :/    It could replace current's useless full reload.

Full reload is not useless if you have a box! It's the best your box can provide: loading all clip at once, without being killed in the process.

By the way, an idea: allow Scout to attach a pistol to an armor and place it near a barrel. Surplus green armors attract zombies very often :) A zombie grabs the armor and the pistol shoots the barrel. Isn't it nice?
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singalen

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2013, 01:55 »

- a way to swap something directly in your box's slot (currently, you can't swap to the box... so, you need to drop it, swap, equipp something, and grab your box again... is this annoyance intended ???)

+1. Swapping to a box just making you temporarily unable to shoot until you select a weapon or swap back. I don't think it's THAT big problem so swapping to your box should be disallowed as it is now.

Er, IIRC, Tab works in "equipped" view.
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Nick

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2013, 05:23 »


Laughing facepalm. Tab. OMG, Tab.
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Nick

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2013, 14:00 »

Anyway, generic switch+select will be faster. I just can't see any reasons to have a special code branch preventing it.
Even though it was really funny to "discover", all of sudden, a dedicated control and feel a bit dumb %)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 14:03 by Nick »
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2013, 15:12 »

Quote
Laughing facepalm. Tab. OMG, Tab.
Hey, but it works ?!!
WHY ???
WHYYYYYYYYYYY ????

I just checked the help section again (cause yes, I had read it), ant it's not mentionned.
Bah, at least, now, I'll know it, but how frustrating :|

What about replacing the stupid "Nothing to switch" message with "use TAB in equippement screen to unequipp your ammo box" ?
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Sambojin

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 17:09 »

While I like the idea from a logical standpoint, it does actually make the game a little easier. I know it's not meant to be "DoomRL: the backpack management simulator", but inventory management is a huge part of the game.

If I could carry around a plasma rifle, bfg or even a bulked out ML/combat shotgun without their attendant ammo-slot, I would. Just quick switch to it when you want it, stock it up with ammo from the ground when needed. The extra versatility of carrying an off-spec weapon is balanced by having to give up 2 inventory slots if you want them to be convenient. You can just one slot it, but it's slow and fiddly (having to drop something, pick up ammo, reload, drop ammo, pick up original thing) and whilst this sounds strange, I think that's how it should be. Either sacrifice 2 slots, or deal with the hassles it causes. Your choice.

If I could just swith, load-off-the-ground, switch back, there would be no downside. One inventory slot for heaps of extra versatility for any character. Whether this is good or not is up for debate, but it would make the game a bit easier (frees up an inventory slow for one thing, would probably be quicker than the fiddly 1-slot reload procedure for another).

Compare it to Juggler's quick-switch multi-shotgun-in-backpack reloading. It's not that much harder and you won't use it as often. They're both fiddly, but the extra versatility they provide does have some drawbacks to them.

So I guess I'm against the idea, even if it's a great idea and makes sense, it does make the game easier and removes one of the only stumbling blocks that Doomguy has to stop him having a backpack full of weapons, rather than ammo for those weapons.
 
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singalen

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2013, 02:42 »

Hey, but it works ?!!
WHY ???
WHYYYYYYYYYYY ????

I just checked the help section again (cause yes, I had read it), ant it's not mentionned.
I've read it in a bottom line tip on e-quipped screen. I think it should be mentioned in help.
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2013, 08:10 »

While I like the idea from a logical standpoint, it does actually make the game a little easier.

Nah, you missed one of the aspects discussed. If it must take more time for "balance issues", then let's make it slower. (I really doubt such an ability would change doomguy's life, anyway...)

It's all about ergonomy. It's annoying to drop & pick up stuff for that. I, for example, would probably use it 95% of the time on a cleared level.
You could have said the same with the use of stuff on the floor... (and THIS, makes some noticeable balance difference) but the possibility to do so was really missing, anyway, so why not add it ?

And if the game really became too easy after adding X new features, it could just be rebalanced by tweaking the weapons or monster's stats.
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SageAcrin

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Re: Reloading with ammo on the ground
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2013, 14:44 »

I feel like this is overthinking things.

You can reload off the ground with a few actions anyways, as of right now. It's just more annoying and takes more in-game time. The latter rarely actually comes up, because you rarely are going to be standing on a pile of relevant ammo. And even more rarely are you not going to have ammo in your inventory while doing it-which would reload faster, and then you could just pick up the ammo later.

So it's a question of if the small but unintuitive and probably unnecessary nerf(raising the time it takes to reload things when you're doing it from the ground) is needed, and I really doubt it. No one's going to break N! by reloading off the floor. But if it is necessary, it's still an easy fix.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 14:45 by SageAcrin »
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