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Author Topic: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting  (Read 5438 times)

skarczew

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2013, 06:47 »

While I like doomRL sounds, I agree that it's really sad that we need them to play.
Most of the games I play are not much different with or without sounds (puyo puyo, puzzle / racing / flash games...) DotA and Quake3 seem to be my 2 only exceptions, and I really prefer it this way.

I agree that a game like doomRL should be playable (with full features) without sound. It would be way more convinient.
I kinda agree with that, as it happens that I do not own headphones at one point or another, and i cannot use speakers, so ...

Support my old suggestions ("Deaf Mode" especially): :D
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5572.msg46701.html#msg46701

Spread the word, annoy devs, and keep your fingers crossed for it (hopes got high chances of success, as the next release was said to be bugfix one)!
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Nick

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2013, 14:41 »

Kinda mix: add more "you hear" messages and use the frame. Frame can be shown in the text mode: tiles where the sound source CAN be = inside the frame. Tiles where the sound source can NOT be = outside the frame.
Like this.

And I like sounds as they are now. Additions to the system? Yes. Replacement? No.
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AcidLead

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2013, 15:29 »

In order to encourage the player to move tactically in combat, I would also go with non-ballistic projectiles being rendered on the screen and moving at their target at set speeds, exactly the way charging lost souls currently functions. The net result would (hopefully) be that the DoomGuy would be forced into a gamestyle more akin to the original game, constantly weaving in between fireball barrages whilst simultaneously trying to put walls between himself and opposing Zombies/Archviles.
It's good to know I'm not the only person who's noticed that all the shooting of this game is instant-hit, destroying that "speed of Doomguy" effect where you're faster than everything the actually resilient monsters throw at you

Of course I can't actually beat this game barring one freak win on a previous version, so what the hell do I know about how this game is supposed to work. I just like playing DOOM, roguelikes, or both at the same time in this particular circumstance.
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ParaSait

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2013, 15:56 »

That'd make all these non-ballistic projectiles way UP.
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Infinitum

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2013, 16:19 »

Only if you straight up implemented them without designing around that fact. Sure, dodging a single Imp indefinetly would be trivial (as it should be imo), but a mob of them? Whilst simultaneously finding the time to off former humans and demons charging at you? There's still challenge to be had in that (albeit not anything much like what the game throws atm, but I'd consider it an improvement).
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2013, 17:28 »

I agree with this. Look at lost souls from the previous versions and compare them to the ones we have now, it's quite the same.

The first 0.9.9.7 game I played (on HNTR), I discovered the new lost soul's AI and tought "Man ! they are ridiculous now... fun, but so easy to dodge... they are just useless"
After a few games, I understood that dodging lost souls is, indeed, easy... as long as you focus on it.
If your main goal is to survive, you often have better things to do than dodging a stupid lost soul. Sometimes, you'll have to run straight for a cover, sometimes you'll need to stay in melee with some commando or mancubus... and if lost souls charge you, you'll just ignore it because there is more important threats.

Cornershooting is curently rather balanced, but is too easy and repetitive. It quickly becomes boring. Having a (very doomish !) way to play differently would be really great.

The only "drawback" I can see is that it probably should be paired with a loss of efficiency of cornershooting (the non 100% protection), resulting in nearly impossible damageless runs.
But finally, while a good player should be able to run through the game easily, I'm not sure it's normal to have the possibility to play the entire game damageless (especially on N!)
Forcing the player to switch between covers and dodging could be a great gameplay improvement, and would need much more tactics that the current game does. (hide, wait for a monster, kill it, repeat)

Note that if projectiles aren't instant anymore, you'll still be able to move from your cover when some monster attacks you. Formers will still break your damageless streak, of course... but are really great players supposed to play fully damageless ?
In the original doom, it wasn't really possible either, because of the same formers (which were probably the most dangerous enemies on higher difficulties... except for commandos :o))

It's all about balancing the speeds of enemy's attack animations, their projectiles, and the player's movements.
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AcidLead

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2013, 18:20 »

I forgot to mention I also wouldn't mind having the rocket and plasma weapons travel at sub-light speeds as well, for DOOM consistency/mild nerf.

But yes, the real problem is everyone who is GOOD at this game as it currently is will just laugh if they can guaranteed avoid all damage from any imp more than three to five spaces away, so what we REALLY need to nerf directly are the skills of the people playing this game. Heh.

I guess the reason I really crave this change is it brings a closer DOOM feel, but the reason I never brought it up all by myself is I always remember THIS ISN'T DIRECTLY DOOM. Don't fix what you can't afford to break and whatnot.

Alternatively, make the harder difficulties have faster projectiles, until they have so much speed on N! (or maybe even UV) that they're basically the same as they are in the current game. Major buff for low-level players frustrated by ARGH WHY ARE YOU NOT SUPPOSED TO WIN ROGUELIKES, no change for those well accustomed to making lemons out of lemonade.
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ParaSait

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2013, 21:53 »

Jeez guys this is indeed supposed to be Doom-ish, but let's not make the gameplay like "exact copy of Doom except that it pauses after every keypress", either. >_>
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AlterAsc

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2013, 01:23 »

1. I agree that some change to cornershooting is needed. Currently it's unnatural and OP. It's also the most (and sometimes the only) sensible way to play early on UV/N! but that shouldn't stop us from thinking how we can make gameplay better.

2. Imho sound shoud not give exact location. Humans are not bats, echolocation is not our strong point. I like the system how it is.
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Nick

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2013, 05:26 »

Of course, not exact. Maybe even a vector, not an area. One of eight possible directions around the player.
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Fusilliban

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Re: Cornershooting, sound and radarshooting
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2013, 20:42 »

I kinda like things how they are now, actually.  Especially with the sound.  "Shit, something is lurking around the corner" amps up the nervousness/tension and encourages me to focus on the game.
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