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Author Topic: Change armor "damaged" thresholds  (Read 6083 times)

shark20061

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Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« on: June 27, 2013, 19:18 »

I'm posting this here to get opinions on an idea I had and some applications of it.

The idea is to allow each armor to set its own "damaged" and "severely damaged" states (the point at which the armor loses half and three-quarters of its protection and resistances).  Right now, all armors go damaged at 50 and severely damaged at 25, regardless of their maximum durability.

This is mainly as a benefit to modders, but I had one application for this: to nerf Malek's Armor very slightly by making it go damaged at 75 and severely damaged at 37.  (Consequentially, if you like this idea and know of anything else that could use this treatment, feel free to make mention of it :)  ).
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Sereg

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 21:09 »

I've died more times on 666 games to Malek's breaking then for any other reason - I'd say it's dangerous enough as is.

Out of curiousity, does the set effect stop when it gets damaged? Or does that require it to go to zero?

I suppose if you wanted to change this so that high max health armors like gothic would go damaged at 100%/50%, that might make sense, but keep in mind they also repair at the same rate as a 100% armor, so maybe balance that by increasing repair from armor shards based on armor max health?

Otherwise I don't really see a need for this particular change - arbitrary damage points seem a bit counterintuitive and not especially useful to me.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 21:09 »

Problem here is how to communicate it to the player without cluttering the interface. The current system has the benefit that everyone knows what to expect. Solution suggestions?
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Sereg

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 21:13 »

Problem here is how to communicate it to the player without cluttering the interface. The current system has the benefit that everyone knows what to expect. Solution suggestions?

This is also true - part of what I meant by changing it being counterintuitive. Being 50% effective at 50% damage and 25% effective at 75% damage makes pretty good sense.

If the goal here is to nerf the Inquisitor's set, I have a few suggestions(though I kinda like it as is, so I'd rather not see it nerfed, lol): First, cap the regeneration of the armor - say by having it only repair itself if it's below 50%, requiring the player to maintain it with armor shards and megaspheres to retain the full(oh boy, 3 whole armor) protection value. Second, nerf the fire resistance to 95% - still very powerful, but not absolutely powerful. Third, cut the speed boost. Fourth, increase the rarity.

I don't think the armor by itself is too terribly OP - yes, it regenerates itself, and yes, in the set, it grants immunity to fire, but it has a low protection value and its resistances aren't great without the set effect. It's much weaker, in terms of actual damage reduction, then quite a lot of 100/666 alternatives.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 21:18 by Sereg »
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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 21:19 »

If the goal here is to nerf the Inquisitor's set, I have a few suggestions(though I kinda like it as is, so I'd rather not see it nerfed, lol): First, cap the regeneration of the armor - say by having it only repair itself if it's below 50%, requiring the player to maintain it with armor shards and megaspheres to retain the full(oh boy, 3 whole armor) protection value.
Actually this itself might be a good idea, and might be enough.
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shark20061

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 21:25 »

Great idea, I'll add regen limit in as a property of items.
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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 21:27 »

Great idea, I'll add regen limit in as a property of items.

There should already be a basis for this with medical armors.
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shark20061

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 22:04 »

These two different types of regeneration are applied in different parts of the code. (Medical armor regen is in Lua, the item's regen is not).

The property is now implemented, but I haven't modified the armor's blueprint yet.  Any other concerns or considerations before the armor gets changed?
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Fusilliban

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 02:52 »

Could set current protection to ceil(armor.protection * max(100, armor.currentdurability)/100).  That'd make bulk and onyx packs even cooler than they are now.
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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 06:51 »

I kinda like the idea, but why not nerf this insane suit a little more ?
3 armor points, with resistance to plasma/acid/fire, AND great movespeed boost looks like the best possible suit to me.
Sure, cerberi are fun, but they make you slow, and don't have those 3 flat protection points. Also, they don't regenerate, and O-modding them prevents from using an A or P instead.

The set bonus is really OP. Honestly, I didn't understand why the game's best armor has been buffed with this, while some other (really correct) armors could have been instead.
Why not put necro-boots, which give some ms and protection, and regenerate draining your health, but gib corpses you walk over for vampyre-like result when you get the set ? I'm sure most other unique armors could have fun pairs too.


Btw, (all) armors could also lose 25% efficiency when slightly damaged.

@Sereg : made my post more clear. No, plz, not 3 immunity sets, or then, make them useless for anything else... but this would suck. Just Neeeeeeeerf that damn malek !
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:01 by Evilpotatoe »
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Sereg

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 07:08 »

3 armors, with resistance to plasma/acid/fire

I like this idea. Why not other sets with immunity to acid/plasma to force you to choose?

Why not put necro-boots, which give some ms and protection, and regenerate draining your health, but gib corpses you walk over for vampyre-like result when you get the set ? I'm sure most other unique armors could have fun pairs too.

This also sounds awesome.
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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 14:12 »

There're not many armors better than Malek's. Really, how many armors have +25% ms, +3 armor and regenerate? And no knockback increase. Same with boots.

And then aside from the fact that you move at 0.56 of normal(normal as with those unequipped) speed you also get fire immunity. Like, srsly??
I would understand if it were something like a MFa effect - with those high-speed equip you supposedly dodge explosions, but full flat immunity?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 14:15 by AlterAsc »
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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2013, 17:17 »

Then again - how often do you find the full set in a normal game, outside of Ao100? Never happened to me, _even_ on Ao100 attempt. The set is_rare_ - and worth the luck.
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shark20061

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2013, 19:25 »

To be honest, rarity shouldn't be a counterbalance for power.
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Sereg

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2013, 20:01 »

To be honest, rarity shouldn't be a counterbalance for power.

Hmm... I'm not entirely sure about that. In an MMO or something, sure, you don't want the top gear being luck based - you want it to be achievement based.

But in DoomRL, we could only do that if we unlocked new exotics and uniques as a player advanced in skill and experience rank, which doesn't seem like an ideal system, and in any case probably wouldn't work with the current theme very well.

So it seems like rarity is the only counterbalance to power we have available in the current model.

The way I see it, the Inquisitor set is so rare that it will only appear in 100s and 666s, and even in the first it's not guaranteed - I've managed complete 100 runs without one of the pieces. I also don't see it as a coincidence that 100 and 666 runs are the ones where the stats the set provides are especially helpful, to the point of being almost essential.

What I would like to see are more options for dealing with the progressively more ridiculous spawns as century challenges go deeper - more rare sets to give you options. Properly modded phaseshift gear is the only other alternative I can think of in the current game, and more options that would be very rare in normal games but almost guaranteed in 666 would give more options for surviving without relying on one "OP" option.

What I wouldn't like to see is one of the only viable options nerfed without providing alternatives.
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