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Author Topic: Change armor "damaged" thresholds  (Read 6848 times)

Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2013, 20:15 »

To be honest, rarity shouldn't be a counterbalance for power.
I thought so too. Until I saw nerfing in action. It's the fun in the game when you sometimes get OP equipment, which is OP at least for some time. This is why Diablo 2 > Diablo 3. The nerfing done to balance the real money auction has killed the single player fun of the game.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

grommile

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2013, 08:41 »

To be honest, rarity shouldn't be a counterbalance for power.
It shouldn't be the exclusive counterbalance, but a game that is allowed to say "because fuck you, that's why" due to extreme RNG should also be allowed to give you awesome things due to extreme RNG.
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Klear

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2013, 10:26 »

I still don't think it's a good idea to have an item combo which, among other things, makes you impervious to cyberdemons...
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IronBeer

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2013, 13:16 »

I still don't think it's a good idea to have an item combo which, among other things, makes you impervious to cyberdemons...
How often has somebody gotten the full Inquisitor set before the Tower of Babel in a normal game? I seriously doubt it happens with ANY level of frequency.

That said, I know the debate is w.r.t. to Ao100 and Ao666 games. It's pretty much a given that somebody's going to get some nutty gear together in either of those runs. Lava Armor + Eviro/Cerb. Boots + Nanomac Rocket/Napalm Launcher, Cerberus Onyx Armor, Cybernano Cybernetic Armor, Nanoskin Energy-Shielded Vest.... I could go on, but the point is that any player who knows their stuff can put together some truly crazy crap given effectively infinite rolls on base gear and mods.

Hell, from a balance standpoint, I'd argue that uniques in of themselves aren't even the biggest concern! A P-modded Nanoskin Energy-Shielded Vest might be the best Ao100/666 "deep-dive" armor- 3 points of base protection, and 75% resist against plasma, fire, and acid. Run the numbers- it's superior to Cybernano Cybernetic against non-ballistic attacks, and the latter when P-modded offers an insane 13 points of armor, plus 50% ballistic resists.

Oh, also- your precious Inqusitor set won't last long if you get cornered by Bruisers or Nightmare Arachnotrons. Just saying.

On-topic, I do think the current durability system works fine. It's intuitive and fairly balanced. I don't think it's worth coming up with an entirely new system to be applied to a few high-end armors.
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Kristopher

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2013, 18:09 »

Considering that I typically only play standard games, and I've found the entire Inquisitor's Set only once or twice (and once not until after clearing the Vaults), this entire discussion strikes me as odd. I could understand if the set effect was on a single piece of armor that keeps popping up and causing ezmodo mortems, but what's wrong with having the RNG throw you a bone every rare once in a while?

I don't really like the idea of balancing things based on Ao100 and Ao666.

Edit: Speaking of which, I don't see the Inquisitor's set as anything resembling a free win either, but that might just be because I play only play on UV these days.  I've had armors *shredded* by packs of Barons almost instantly.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 18:11 by Kristopher »
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 02:03 »

Quote
Hell, from a balance standpoint, I'd argue that uniques in of themselves aren't even the biggest concern!
I think that's Malek's problem.
Most unique items have drawbacks : Necroarmor gives great ms and 6 armor, but drains your life, Lava is annoying to repair, shielded is very specific, cybernetic is cursed, and medical... sucks.
Malek ? Shines on all points : good protections, good ms, and regenerates quickly, for free.
Even enviroboots, which are 5% slower than A-modded cerberi boots, are not interresting on angel of grind.

And it's the same for weapons : Trigun or BFG10K have drawbacks, one with its reload speed and the other with friendly fire.

Malek and its boots pair are just too good.
I'm already happy enough when I find a necro, phaseshift, or nuclear plasma rifle !

Should rarity be a counterbalance for power ? Well, this is a roguelike, so of course, average items (vanilla weapons and armors, etc.) have to be common, while some better ones need to be rare.
But I hate items witch completely change the game, like Malek's ones, or that stupid DS.

Currently, they usually occur late enough, so it doesn't change much the game, since the hard part is Phobos. But I hope we'll fear hell again in a few versions, and the problem of OP stuff making it a cake will come back again.
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Equality

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 08:52 »

stop! what the problem? They say that Inquisitor Set overpowered? But it not guaranteed even at Ao100. Oh, at Arch666? well... in such not easy and long challenge why not?
Malek's armor not overpowered at all.
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Sereg

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2013, 10:28 »

I think that's Malek's problem.
Most unique items have drawbacks : Necroarmor gives great ms and 6 armor, but drains your life, Lava is annoying to repair, shielded is very specific, cybernetic is cursed, and medical... sucks.
Malek ? Shines on all points : good protections, good ms, and regenerates quickly, for free.
Even enviroboots, which are 5% slower than A-modded cerberi boots, are not interresting on angel of grind.

And it's the same for weapons : Trigun or BFG10K have drawbacks, one with its reload speed and the other with friendly fire.

Malek and its boots pair are just too good.
I'm already happy enough when I find a necro, phaseshift, or nuclear plasma rifle !

Should rarity be a counterbalance for power ? Well, this is a roguelike, so of course, average items (vanilla weapons and armors, etc.) have to be common, while some better ones need to be rare.
But I hate items witch completely change the game, like Malek's ones, or that stupid DS.

Currently, they usually occur late enough, so it doesn't change much the game, since the hard part is Phobos. But I hope we'll fear hell again in a few versions, and the problem of OP stuff making it a cake will come back again.

I won't deny you may have a point, but I'm gonna point to your badge count again here.

What seems easy to you isn't necessarily easy to the average player - you're playing the game at a much higher skill level. Suffice it to say that what's balanced for you isn't necessarily balanced for the rest of us, and vice versa.

It's also worth pointing out that you have the option of voluntarily ignoring content that makes the game feel too easy - think the Inquisitor's set is OP? Don't use it. Think Dragonslayer is too strong? Leave it on the ground. You can do this for any challenge you choose. On the other end of the scale, I can't voluntarily ignore things that make the game feel too hard. I can play on a lower difficulty level, sure - but I can't do that for all challenges.

Voluntarily ignoring content is how most roguelike challenge games work outside of DoomRL - this is the only game I'm aware of that provides a native support structure for challenge games.

Though now that I think about it, maybe we could have an Angel that blocks uniques/exotics/assemblies?
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Fusilliban

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2013, 13:25 »

It's also worth pointing out that you have the option of voluntarily ignoring content that makes the game feel too easy - think the Inquisitor's set is OP? Don't use it. Think Dragonslayer is too strong? Leave it on the ground. You can do this for any challenge you choose. On the other end of the scale, I can't voluntarily ignore things that make the game feel too hard. I can play on a lower difficulty level, sure - but I can't do that for all challenges.

Voluntarily ignoring content is how most roguelike challenge games work outside of DoomRL - this is the only game I'm aware of that provides a native support structure for challenge games.

This from the guy who was telling everyone to nerf OC because he kept spamming it?
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Sereg

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Re: Change armor "damaged" thresholds
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2013, 16:39 »

See, I don't think it's too easy - I think it's just right ;) but as the way I earn most of my badges isn't intended, it should probably be nerfed in the next version to prevent noobs like me from having badge counts like mine =P
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