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Author Topic: Automatic medpack use.  (Read 5293 times)

Cacodemon_hugs

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Automatic medpack use.
« on: September 04, 2013, 08:46 »

Because I'm a fool, I've almost lost count of how many times I have died with a backpack filled with medpacks..
I'm sure I'm not the only one that this has happened to.

Some of my best plays have been using a Survivalist as my DoomGuy, so it's obvious to me (from this experience) that health, and auto-regen are both very important.

It occurred to me, almost directly after my last death;
"Wouldn't it be cool, if those stored medpack's could've been used automatically?"

I'm not sure how often traits get altered, or added to/taken away from (I'm starting with 0.9.9.7). But I liked the idea of having automatic healing being an option (or additional feature) toward health based trait trees.

Though, in lieu of this, I may just have to reconsider some of my approach toward the game (taking more time each move, even when just trying to achieve some high DPS)

Or maybe even a trait that would additionally allow (or exclusively) the ability to manufacture med packs under certain restrictions/guidelines. I thought of this one as I was writing now, and it seems that it could be most beneficial to a lot of players. Having that 1 extra medpack when it is needed the most can make a break a game. Certainly something that I could foresee being useful, even after my experience with the game has increased.

These ideas are obviously from someone who is aware that he is going to be taking more damage than avoiding. Try as I might to avoid damage (using cover. though still haven't quite got the habit of 'running') I end up taking it, to YASD more often then not.

Just some ideas. What do you think?
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Uranium

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 08:59 »

I can see where you're coming from, but this makes the game too easy.
Knowing when to use medpacks and knowing how much health you need to do various things safely is an integral part of this game, and taking that away by allowing you to automatically heal would weaken the game and its players. I think a trait that automatically uses medpacks would be overdoing it, as you'd come to rely on it much as I did with, for example, Intuition 2 before it was nerfed.
There is a way I can see something like this being implemented though, maybe in the form of a special auto-medpack item in the vein of Fallout: New Vegas, that gets used automatically when you drop below a certain health level - it's a backup plan, but not one that will save you in the face of insurmountable odds (as your HP will drop too fast for it to do anything, or you'll be killed immediately from above the health threshold).
An interesting thought though, and I'd like to hear other people's views on this.
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thelaptop

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 09:02 »

Nah.  At what point do you draw the line that a med-pack needs to be used?  75% HP?  25% HP?  What about if there's a large health globe within 2 tiles, should we use a med-pack then?  Or if you are standing on top of an invulnerability sphere and taken enough damage to reduce you to <25% HP?

If you are relying on "tanking" to play DoomRL, perhaps you need to play a few more games to get a better feel for the mechanics.  Indeed, HP is important in DoomRL -- you can't do anything if you are dead -- but cover and ranged combat mechanics (like dodging and "corner shooting") are also more important.  You can take less damage if you kill the things that are trying to kill you first -- let that sink in for now.
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Cacodemon_hugs

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 09:52 »

I love the replies. My suggestion made it pretty evident to myself that I just need to continue learning the mechanics more, but I was definitely curious what others thought about it.

For instance, I love this idea:
There is a way I can see something like this being implemented though, maybe in the form of a special auto-medpack item in the vein of Fallout: New Vegas, that gets used automatically when you drop below a certain health level - it's a backup plan, but not one that will save you in the face of insurmountable odds

I still really like the other idea, that came with the thought of health regen.
What about creating your own MedPacks?
Or instead of having to dedicate a piece of something as integral as a trait, why not an Armor that is healing?
Or another rare Mod that has enhancements based around health rewarding attributes (Vampyr weapons; health regen armor)?
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 10:01 »

but cover and ranged combat mechanics (like dodging and "corner shooting")

* Malek Deneith twitches then stabs thelaptop with a rusty knife

Flaws in LoS code are not mechanics, damn it! >:|
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thelaptop

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 10:15 »

Flaws in LoS code are not mechanics, damn it! >:|
Damnit Grand Inquisitor, it's now a feature.

* thelaptop stomps on Malek Deneith with his boots
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Klear

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 10:24 »

The idea with a special auto-medpack item... isn't that something medical (power)armour should do? I believe that the current consensus is that these armours could use a buff... how about making them release their healing power in "bursts" - when you drop under 20% HP, let them use up 20% of durability all at once to heal you more.
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 10:32 »

Damnit Grand Inquisitor, it's now a feature.

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Cacodemon_hugs

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 10:56 »

The idea with a special auto-medpack item... isn't that something medical (power)armour should do? I believe that the current consensus is that these armours could use a buff... how about making them release their healing power in "bursts" - when you drop under 20% HP, let them use up 20% of durability all at once to heal you more.

Hey now! That's a great idea! And it seems easy enough to be able to implement, without having to change much.
Has enough of a benefit to be desirable, yet enough drawbacks to keep it balanced. Love it :D
And it would give gamers something more to consider/look forward to, when it comes to playing and operating a character.

And even as a new player, I do somewhat have to agree that:
Flaws in LoS code are not mechanics, damn it! >:|
I mean, thinking back to how Doom was played, originally, you didn't really get the choice to sit behind a wall and spam shotty blasts from a point where you can't be "seen" by the enemy.

But that's really for another post. Yea?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 11:00 by Cacodemon_hugs »
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emulord

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 12:41 »

I was playing DoomRL and a friend was watching me corner shoot. He said "Wow, you're really curving those bullets huh?"
Idk, shooting blindly around corners is what I'd do if I was trapped in hell :P. Don't let a missing feature in original doom prevent you from implementing it.
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White Rider

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 13:11 »

I prefer to think of corner-shooting as poking your weapon around the corner and blindly shooting.
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Cacodemon_hugs

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2013, 13:37 »

I prefer to think of corner-shooting as poking your weapon around the corner and blindly shooting.
I certainly agree, when thinking about it in terms of 'in real life' :D

Idk, shooting blindly around corners is what I'd do if I was trapped in hell :P.
lol, I thought the same thing on my very next playthrough directly after my last post.

DoomRL certainly offers more then the original game as far as content and consideration during play. I'm excited to be around for any changes that may come next. From lurking the threads, I see that there are (as I would come to anticipate) a number of other RL's, as well as work on modifications in other ways, such as; DoomRL Arsenal. But I'll wait to play these until I have exhausted DoomRL (which will likely be some time! lol)

I'll be interested to see if there will be any additional modifications toward healing at any capacity (as this post initially suggests seeing created).
I think a mod being in the form of an armor is brilliant. For it allows it to be attainable, while keeping it out of reach of relying on it (where possible, were it a trait).
In my quest to run successfully through higher difficulties, I'm finding that armor is off the up most importance. Seeing something evolve like this (or any, updated, concentration on additional armor) would certainly be a pleasant reality.
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Infinitum

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2013, 17:32 »

Using items from your inventory costs energy however; automating their use is liable to get you killed more rather than less once you start encountering 1/2-shot situations.
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Cacodemon_hugs

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2013, 19:57 »

Using items from your inventory costs energy however; automating their use is liable to get you killed more rather than less once you start encountering 1/2-shot situations.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.
If, say, an Armor, that had a trait to automatically heal when a DoomGuy when below 25%, were to heal you taking o.oo seconds, how would you die?

It seems possible that something like this could easily exist, for instance,*actual armor spoiler*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, knowing a small amount about programming, I know there are abilities to "stack" commands. Coding one command, during a time where multiple instances are occurring at once, to take precedence over the others.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 19:59 by Cacodemon_hugs »
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thelaptop

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Re: Automatic medpack use.
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 20:08 »

What Infinitum says is that medpack use consumes 1.0s time (or less if you are a Technician).  This time consumed will get you killed especially if you "trigger" it with the hypothetical trait while under heavy fire, where a much better option might be to move orthogonal to the direction of fire to trigger the dodge effect while trying to find cover.  I would go as far as to say that anything that reduces your number of degrees of freedom in the game is not a good idea.  Roguelikes are all about making decisions, and you really don't want that right taken away from you especially when it can put you in a particularly impossible-to-avoid death.

If you are saying that medpack uses under your proposed trait takes 0.00s, then I will strongly and vehemently veto the idea completely.  That is basically asking for an increase of HP by an indefinite amount in-game, which is overpowered.

I don't know how much programming you know, but one thing you will have to understand eventually is that while everything is possible in the world of software, sometimes it is not practical to do something because the way existing code is structured does not allow an easy/natural way of coding a particular effect.  That is part of the reason why some bugs are left untouched still, while some features (like bouncing projectiles) are not pursued at all due to the complexity of adding new code in a way that is parsimonious with the existing code base.  And no, sometimes rewriting the existing code base isn't feasible as well.
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