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[TFoN]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The reason for the ToD is for automation - you can make a macro that blows the horn, fires off N bolts of fire, where N is the worst-case number of bolts that kills a beast, in the cardinal direction the tunnel goes in, fires off the XP sink spell or whatever, and rests for the worst-case number of turns to regain the MP you just spent. Leave your finger on the macro button for a while.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, that's just plain evil playing :)
Sounds flawless enough to be considered for special attention by the Crawl devteam. AFAIK ToD's already made temporary in DCSS.

When it comes to Unseen Horrors, on the other hand, I somewhat disagree. Sure they can be a very large PITA, but if you're willing to blow a few potions of Heal Wounds, or even plain Healing, that can make a spellcaster hold out until the Teleport kicks in. If you are unfortunate enough that the teleport lands you within visual range of the UH again, though, you're SOL.

When I play casters on cave-levels, I tend to hug the walls. If I get an "It hits you!", I immediately reach for my closest source of digging and dig a tunnel into the wall so I have a corridor I can kill it in. Tactics from there on depends on what perishables I have access to and how many HP and how good defense I have.

Although teleportation and healing are obviously useful, these tend to fail me on too regular a basis (mostly by spawning badly). Obviously not always, as UH's aren't usually the end of my games, but they've made short work of many good chars of mine, and as I was later considering what I had done wrong, often no alternative path seems nearly airtight.
The cave-dig system I hadn't considered much, however. Possibly because I can usually fend off an UH by the time I can dig, but either way, I'll be sticking to this one. Tnx.

[Elethiomel]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The reason for the ToD is for automation - you can make a macro that blows the horn, fires off N bolts of fire, where N is the worst-case number of bolts that kills a beast, in the cardinal direction the tunnel goes in, fires off the XP sink spell or whatever, and rests for the worst-case number of turns to regain the MP you just spent. Leave your finger on the macro button for a while.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, that's just plain evil playing :)
Sounds flawless enough to be considered for special attention by the Crawl devteam. AFAIK ToD's already made temporary in DCSS.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They're already aware of it. I found out about it due to a YAVP on r.g.r.m. I don't think it is a problem, though. It has harsh prerequisites.
1. You have to be a mummy (or learn Lichform, but that's even crazier).
2. You have to have the Horn of Geryon.
Neither of these are trivial. Then you have to be willing to spend the time. Then it is really really obvious in a VP. It would be easier to convincingly fake a VP than to play this out. So what's the point in nerfing it?

As far as ToD goes, I think that it isn't temporary - rather, it creates four rather than eight walls around you, so you have to have two castings to be fenced in.

When it comes to Unseen Horrors, on the other hand, I somewhat disagree. Sure they can be a very large PITA, but if you're willing to blow a few potions of Heal Wounds, or even plain Healing, that can make a spellcaster hold out until the Teleport kicks in. If you are unfortunate enough that the teleport lands you within visual range of the UH again, though, you're SOL.

When I play casters on cave-levels, I tend to hug the walls. If I get an "It hits you!", I immediately reach for my closest source of digging and dig a tunnel into the wall so I have a corridor I can kill it in. Tactics from there on depends on what perishables I have access to and how many HP and how good defense I have.

Although teleportation and healing are obviously useful, these tend to fail me on too regular a basis (mostly by spawning badly). Obviously not always, as UH's aren't usually the end of my games, but they've made short work of many good chars of mine, and as I was later considering what I had done wrong, often no alternative path seems nearly airtight.

Yeah, UHs are tricky with the escape from them being "airtight". There's the old standby of having poison resistance (well, or not. It works without also, but is more risky) and firing Poison Cloud or Evaporate at yourself so that the UH *has* to advance through it and thus becoming confused for long enough for the teleport to kick in. If your teleport puts you close to the UH, you should now know which direction it comes from and lay down more confuzzling clouds.

The cave-dig system I hadn't considered much, however. Possibly because I can usually fend off an UH by the time I can dig, but either way, I'll be sticking to this one. Tnx.

Yeah, well... a Wand of Digging is gold. Finding one early makes many things easier, not only UHs, but I seldom learn the Dig spell except for the Hive (dig around the lake instead of flying over it) and Hellrunning (Magic Map, Dig, go down the stairs, repeat), and I skip it for those areas if I don't have Selective Amnesia - it is too slot-intensive for anywhere I don't have a particular and specific use for it. Wands are usually enough.

[TFoN]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They're already aware of it. I found out about it due to a YAVP on r.g.r.m. I don't think it is a problem, though. It has harsh prerequisites.
1. You have to be a mummy (or learn Lichform, but that's even crazier).
2. You have to have the Horn of Geryon.
Neither of these are trivial. Then you have to be willing to spend the time. Then it is really really obvious in a VP. It would be easier to convincingly fake a VP than to play this out. So what's the point in nerfing it?

As far as ToD goes, I think that it isn't temporary - rather, it creates four rather than eight walls around you, so you have to have two castings to be fenced in.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I personaly always bother to acquire the Horn, as it has so many uses and is worth a fair 5k if you escape with it.
Being a mummy or having Necromutation's another matter entirely, and is certainly more case-specific. You could, on the other hand, have a weapon of vampiricism instead, casting Summon Small Mammal in that same tunnel, and then Ctrl-attack them. But this depends on all the numerics involved, and may end up with an overall minus instead of a plus. Acquireing that weapon shouldn't be too much of a problem, however, if you can summon Balrugs - which is easy if you're at the Temple, have the Horn, and join with Makhleb. Leaving him after isn't even that dangerous, if you even have a reason to.

I remember reading the ToD was made temporary. But as I had said, I never bothered learning it, so I'm not sure.

Yeah, UHs are tricky with the escape from them being "airtight". There's the old standby of having poison resistance (well, or not. It works without also, but is more risky) and firing Poison Cloud or Evaporate at yourself so that the UH *has* to advance through it and thus becoming confused for long enough for the teleport to kick in. If your teleport puts you close to the UH, you should now know which direction it comes from and lay down more confuzzling clouds.

Poison Cloud's another one where I'm likely to be able to deal with UHs easily by the time I have it, assuming I'm even practicing poison magic. Evaporate's a much easier spell, but it's also rather rare. Otherwise, I agree, and it's probably worth the risk even without poison protection.

Yeah, well... a Wand of Digging is gold. Finding one early makes many things easier, not only UHs, but I seldom learn the Dig spell except for the Hive (dig around the lake instead of flying over it) and Hellrunning (Magic Map, Dig, go down the stairs, repeat), and I skip it for those areas if I don't have Selective Amnesia - it is too slot-intensive for anywhere I don't have a particular and specific use for it. Wands are usually enough.

I try to always learn Dig, as I tend to also keep pets, and I hate having them stuck behind a corner. Walking them out carefully costs valuable food. Vaporising walls makes that much less frequent an issue. There's also Recall, but it isn't as utilitary, and doesn't help me if I'm trying to make room for my pets in the midst of battle (or in preparation). Free digging's also great for Pandemonium, where some vaults require Dig to get through, and where there's a very good chance of being cornered by hordes of demons. Facing them one at a time's a life saver, mostly if a 5's blocking an Executioner.

[RickVoid]

Well, I've been trying to play with multiple characters. DemiGod/DemonSpawn Reavers seem to be playable, but because I suck I don't get very far. Ditto with Draconians of any class. I managed to get a Troll Berserker to CharLvl 9, DungeonLvl 9, but that's the farthest I've gotten before or since. (It's also my over 4,000 pt game. The only game so far in which I've broken 1,000 pts, mostly because I got a +11,+12 Longsword from Trog. (Might've been randart, I don't remember.) That I didn't end up using, because I was going with unarmed attacks. Doh!!)

Kobolds seem like an interesting race to play as, but I typically get pwned by others of my kind. (They often wield elven/dwarven/orcish short swords. Bastards.) I wonder if there is a baby down there my Kobold could eat...

On a similar topic, I found a slice of pizza on lvl 1 of the dungeon. Swear to Trog.

I love this game.

[TFoN]

Ah, and which kind of pizza was it? :)

I terribly dislike Reavers. They mean splitting your starting skills too many ways, and for what? Class has no real long-term effect, if you don't want it to have. By playing a more focused class you can almost always better survive the first few dlvls. After that, your starting class hardly matters anyway.

Have you played a Demonspawn Chaos Knight of Makhleb yet?

[Malek Deneith]

Have you played a Demonspawn Chaos Knight of Makhleb yet?

Khe he he, classic - most of my characters when I first started playing ToME were Demonspawn Chaos Knights of Makhleb :)

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Heh that's funny, I play reavers most of the time, and I value their survivalability :)

[RickVoid]

Yes, I have tried Demonspawn Chaos Knights of Mahkleb.
I just never seem to get very far with them. I think it's a combination of "W00T, I AM TEH DEMON!!!" retardation mixed up with never running away, and never being hungry when there's a corpse readily available. (And good luck finding one when I am... grr.)
Any way, I'll just have to keep on keeping on.

And I think the pizza was pepparoni. :)

[maso]

Dont know if it has been mentioned in this thread you can play at crawl.akrasiac.org online and watch others struggle to beat the game. Also you can nose at other peoples mortems etc. What I like about this game that every character has good chance of winning with enough due care and attention after the early game lottery.
edit:oops use the search

[TFoN]

Heh that's funny, I play reavers most of the time, and I value their survivalability :)

Then please do explain them to me! :)

Have you played a Demonspawn Chaos Knight of Makhleb yet?

Khe he he, classic - most of my characters when I first started playing ToME were Demonspawn Chaos Knights of Makhleb :)

Don't you mean Crawl?
In that case, same here :) My first (and currently only) win is one.

I just never seem to get very far with them. I think it's a combination of "W00T, I AM TEH DEMON!!!" retardation mixed up with never running away, and never being hungry when there's a corpse readily available. (And good luck finding one when I am... grr.)

Heheheh... Yeah, that's something to get through :P
Consider you start up mostly human, or even less. Your demon-blood only comes into play later, and only after a few such "evilutions" it's time to start feeling uber :D


Thanks, and yes, akrasiac has been discussed. Problem is that (at least for me) it lags too much to be worth my while. I've tried PuTTy, and although that cleared up the page draw issue, it still lags like hell. I've also proposed a system to reduce lag (I'll find the page later...). Any other ideas for me?

[Zephyre Syx]

My telnet display is completely screwed up.  I love to watch, but not if it's all choppy'n shi... er,...y'all have that problem or it's just me?

[Malek Deneith]

Quote from: Malek on March 31, 2007, 17:46:07
Quote
Have you played a Demonspawn Chaos Knight of Makhleb yet?
Khe he he, classic - most of my characters when I first started playing ToME were Demonspawn Chaos Knights of Makhleb :)
Don't you mean Crawl?
In that case, same here :) My first (and currently only) win is one.

Yeah, Crawl... been playing too much ToME when I posted that and got it mixed up.

As for crawl.akrasiac.org I'd play but default Win XP telnet client is screwy, and the only semi-normal other client that I found freezez for some reson after some time. (Dunno why, it just stops refershing or smth.)

[BDR]

Before you write off crawl.akrasic.org, you really ought to try it with PuTTY first.  That solved my problems with the standard telnet utility, though lag probably depends on your connection.

If you like the result, be sure to set it up in the options so that the keyboard controls are NetHack style (at least, you should if you'd rather use the numpad for movement instead of the vi-keys [yuihklnm,]).

EDIT: A special place has appeared.

[RickVoid]

Still trying to get anywhere with my Demonspawn Chaos Knights of Maklehb.

Quick question about the Demon mutations. Are they completely random as to when and what you get? I once got two horn mutations at level 2, and on another ocassion an eyesight at level 4, with nothing before that. I've even gotten to level 6 with no mutations! :X

[BDR]

There are certain mutations (which are supposedly worth their weight in gold) that you can only get after level 10, and some that you only receive before level 10.  Specifics can be found within the links on the akrasiac website.