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[Sambojin]

In my somewhat ill disciplined and never-on-time tinkering in the world of roguelikes, I've decided to do a Doom tribute based on another pseudo-roguelike engine. My initial idea was to do it under the X@com engine, but it was a bit fiddly, yet very cool. I'll probably come back to it at some stage (the X@com engine is one of the most sophisticated ascii roguelike engines currently (sort-of) in development. X@com: The Fall of Mars will be completed one day as a mission/mod-pack).

So what other engine could convey the Doom style experience in a roguelike manner? The roguelike style experience specifically? Well, there's one. Triangle Wizard. I do a little bit of bug-hunting and typo fixing from time to time for the dev, so I'm fairly familiar with it's workings. It's also completely moddable, with enemies, spells (weapons), items, etc all changeable very easily. It also happens to be a realtime-roguelike engine, giving you more of an opportunity for circle-strafing goodness. There's also the matter of particle effects. Lots of particle and graphical effects.

Strangely enough, the mod would be a regression of the basic Triangle Wizard gameplay. Less weapons (spells), less enemies, less items. Some of the mechanics will have to be mucked around with (reload is essentially casting speed, spell regen virtually doesn't exist (it's a nano pack worth's of goodness), armour is resistance items, a chainsaw is a decent melee weapon), but I think it can be done. Rather easily in this case.

So the point of this post is: should I go ahead and do this thing? It's just for a bit of fun and so I can draw more attention to Doom, a certain excellent roguelike and Triangle Wizard, simply because they're some of my favourite games. Would you play it if it was done well? Can you think of any major stumbling blocks (assuming you understand T.Wizard modding. Currently both levelling traits, class/race/god combos and mod-packs are on my "I'll have to work out something" list.)? Would you think of it as a horrible thing to do (considering I should be doing graphics/concepts for something else right now)?

Hell, I'll throw in some Doom Arsenal tribute mod references as well. Just so it's about the 4th step along in the game/roguelike/game/roguelike chain of Doom tributes :)

Edit: f'ing advocates. Yes, this is fair use. Just, but justly.

[thelaptop]

Allow me to play devil's advocate here.

DoomRL stands on uncertain ground, IP-wise.  We're quietly ignored by the vultures for now, but the more tributes to DoomRL there are, the larger a target we become.

I do not know what's that critical size before the vultures start clamping down.  While I'm always glad to see fan-based tributes of cool stuff (and fan-based tributes of fan-based tributes to cool stuff), I get uneasy the more we have these going.

On a side note, making DoomRL using not DoomRL sounds strange, unless there's something absolutely novel that the current DoomRL doesn't do.  For instance, if your tribute can work on iOS, Android and Symbian, then it's a different animal altogether!  Or if you want to mimic current DoomRL behaviour, but make it easy to fork and test different radical concepts, I don't see it as a problem.

Finally, I must stress that I'm not the owner of DoomRL -- I'm still only the Chaos Fanatic!, so what I say represents only my views and not that of Kornel's.

[Sambojin]

I'm aware of the juxtaposition that DoomRL holds under current IP laws. It is a tribute in an entirely different genre as well as a parody of sorts. It has both humour and entertainment value, does not disparage against the original IP, and is of an entirely different gameplay form (increasing consumer confidence of the original IP as well as being entirely donation driven, therefore taking no sales away from the original IP).

So, not a problem. I know where you're coming from, so I'll base my mod off Doom, and not DoomRL. But because I'm cool, there will be references to one of the best roguelikes ever made.

[Sambojin]

Just so we're all clear on this:

Doom->DoomRL

Parody: Both the original creators of the game (iDSoftware), and the game itself (Doom) was considered a leap forward in graphics technology in the first-person-shooter genre of computer games. DoomRL is a step back from that, having for many versions only used alphabetical characters to represent enemies/level-layout/items/etc, and now basic 2-D pixel-art representing all facets of the game necessary to show to the player. That a simple group of alphabetical characters or small "icons" on a monitor can signify terror to the player allows the nature of the parody in comparison to the original and is shown in graphical terms. Also, for a real-time, first-person-shooter with (at the time excellent) graphics to be re-portrayed in very basic two-dimensional graphical nature, or with text characters, shows it's basic humour at a portrayal of the parody in a graphical nature.

Humour: There are so many references to so many other games/creations/people/IPs in DoomRL, most of them described in a nonchalant or humorous manner, that such humour is not directed at any particular IP, nor in a disparaging manner. The humour is there upon many angles, towards many sources in pop-culture. It is this attitude contained in DoomRL that gives is it's overall "feel", regardless of it's basis in IP, it is not simply directed towards a particular IP or "game-world".

Entertainment value: Many players of the game DoomRL have played it for rather significant amounts of time, numbering in the hundreds of hours of play-time in some cases across all versions that have been released. That it has entertained an audience of players for this amount of time shows it has entertainment value.

Economic value: DoomRL does gain Chaosforge some donations, but it is free to both download and play for all users with the full set of features and gameplay options available to the user upon this free download regardless of donations given. It does not cost anything to play the game, therefore does not take any purchasing power away from any particular individual. If the user wishes to purchase any product from any particular IP, from any particular developer or company, they may, and have just as much purchasing power as they did before playing DoomRL.

I'm not trying to muck with you thelaptop, or Kornel, but I tend to think I could make a pretty good case in court if anyone gave you a C&D order and tried to follow it through.   

[thelaptop]

A Veteran Warrior always welcomes avoided battle.

* thelaptop smiles

[Sambojin]

Indeed. But it is always useful to know the lay of the land that you may walk in.

So Triangle Doom, a tribute to Doom it is.
 

[Sambojin]

After some convencense and thought (ie: drinking cheap wine) I've decided to go ahead with the mod for Triangle Wizard.

I'll be able to do race/class/god combo's (even hardcoded bits of it) as Angel of *foo* and master-trait beginnings. A massive shift to incantantion pickups and spell/weapon pickups (considering that there will be all of 8 of them to begin with) is simply a different levelling path. It may be the weapons you don't have that determines your character build. Storage is fine, it's just more ammo. Spell regen will be amazingly pricey (considering the gold enemies drop and their stats, even on shop levels).

Meh, whatever. I'm going to do it. A mod for Triangle Wizard. Triangle Doom. Not at all roguelike. Not even like DoomRL roguelike. But, there might be a few references. I hope Kornel doesn't sue me.

[Sambojin]

Anyway, I'll chuck something up here when I've got something to show. Give it a burl when it's half done, just so I've got reasonable feedback from a damn good forum that knows these things. Poor Wouter doesn't even know how good of an engine for roguelikes that he's got. No sound, no multiplayer, but that's by decision. And typo's. And stuff. It sort of needs sound and multiplayer. Whatever. Damn good engine anyway.

Mwahahahahahahahaha. I need something to do until NewIPRL gets any real form of design from the godhand. Mwahahahahahah. And stuff.