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Author Topic: [H|100%|24|YAAM] Strongman Diamond (thank god that's over)  (Read 2431 times)

Sylph

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After discussing it in another thread, I decided to post this mortem after all...
I'll try to keep it insightful and entertaining, but as usual I'll include headings to help you skip the boring bits. ;)

Core victory reasons
This victory was mainly down to paying lots of attention to enemy health levels, and armour management strategy. Namely, switching between a P-red armour, energy shield, Fireproof red armour, and a ballistic duelist armour, to defend against general attacks, plasma/acid, fire, or melee attacks, respectively. More than any other, though, I found that switching to a suit of nanofibre red almost every time my berserk activated gave me all the defense I needed, and kept all my 'special' armours healthy for when I needed them - it's amazing just how much damage you take in strongman diamond.

Armour musings
Nanofibre red is very easy to make, and so is fireproof red. Ballistic armour is a must, for me, any time I find an armour with inbuilt melee resistance (duelist, ballistic, etc). Those 3, alone, are pretty much enough to make it through the whole game, especially if you P-mod your nanofibre before you B-mod it and keep using the 100%-75% range of it until you run out of 'disposable' armour and take the plunge to turn it into nanofibre. It's shocking just how little damage P-modded red takes - for most of the game it takes less damage than it recovers from armour shards! Likewise, B-mod a red and use it all the way to <50% before you put the T mod on for fireproof. Between those two modding orders, my armour was pretty strong in every attempt, but there does come a point where getting nanofibre seems ideal (about when archviles, mancubi, and revenants start showing up everywhere).

The build
The particular build didn't seem that important beyond the anomoly, but prior to that, getting a third level of brute before berserker increased my chance of getting a marine through the early game LOADS, like, doubled the chances or something! Basically, brute 1 is good for fighting humans, brute 2 lets you single-tap imps with the pistol to get them to chase you round a corner, and finish them with a fist to take zero damage. Brute 3 is pretty much necessary to have any kind of a chance of killing a demon or hell knight without taking a load of attacks (I shotgun them until they're heavily wounded or above, and then pistol them to mortally wounded if I get a chance). Actually activating berserker (4 melee attacks) is pretty rare if you're wounding monsters with guns prior to hitting them, and you take too much damage in the early game (pre red armour) NOT to wound monsters before finishing them.
After vampyre, the whole game flips, and becomes pretty much a walk in the park until hell, at which point decent armour management is necessary, but there's nothing particularly difficult about getting your win after you get vampyre. Not that it means getting your badge most of the time, though. Kornel should just re-describe this challenge as:

'win the game with just a fist,
then roll a dice and get a 6',

- It would feel less frustrating! :D
[edit - especially notable given tormuse's report (a version ago) of getting strongman diamond without getting platinum! ]

Special levels
Also worth noting is my tackling the arena. I found the large medikit well worth the 1-2 small medikits I'd typically use completing it, and the blue armour allows me to tackle the chained court without any significant cost (maybe 1 small medikit). If, however, things seems difficult, skipping the arena's last wave still gets you the large medikit, and you get an additional a small medikit that you would not otherwise get, which can help get a character back into the game, provides a much easier chained court (no arena master), and only struggles if you get phobos lab instead of military base (where the rocket launcher is really valuable against the demons!)
This time, though, I got a full clear on the arena, a straightforward chained court, and rolled military base, which can be cleared completely with giftdropping. That's pretty much ideal, but not particularly rare.
Oh, Hell's armoury is *so* much nicer than phobos lab, but a melee build can typically handle either of them without any worries. 2 shamblers aren't any trouble for a berserker!
I only did the vaults because I'd just picked up 2 invulnerabilty globes, otherwise I'd probably skip them (approaching revenants on foot is suicide, shooting at them is risky in a strongman challenge).
Similarly, I entered Dis with invulnerability, but decided not to use the nuke, just in case my own death would fail me on the challenge (wasn't sure how it's tracked).

Run summary
Overall, I'm very glad to finally have gained this badge. Making sure *not* to kill monsters* doesn't feel very doomrl, and while I welcomed the change at first, I was getting pretty eager for a return to 'usual' play after a couple of nights of this. The headache is hugely increased when you can get disqualified without knowing what went wrong, and continue playing, which ended up being incredibly disheartening even on this successful run (I was fairly sure I would not get a badge at the end, for some infraction I was unaware of). This resulted in my sense of relief being greater than my sense of acheivement when I finally read the mortem. That is, 'thank god I don't have to do that again'. :)

*: at range.



--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Sylph, level 11 Arch-Vile Mjr General Marine,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 759458 turns and scored 167114 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 23 minutes and 27 seconds.
 He wasn't afraid to be hurt plenty.

 He killed 698 out of 698 hellspawn. (100%)
 This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 6
  Levels completed : 6

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Cyberdemon's Head
  Medal of Prejudice
  Sunrise Iron Fist
  Hell Armorer Badge
  Hell Champion Medal
  Strongman Gold Badge
  Strongman Platinum Badge
  Strongman Diamond Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ####................................#####################>#
  ###...............####...............######################
  ##.......####.....####.....####.......#####################
  #........####.....####.....####........####################
  .........####.....####.....####.........###################
  .........####..............####..........##################
  ..........................................#################
  ..####............................####....#################
  .&####............................####....#################
  ..####............................####....#################
  ..####............................####....#################
  ...............................%X.........#################
  .........####..............####..........##################
  .........####.....####.....####.........###################
  #........####.....####.....####........####################
  ##.......####.....####.....####.......#####################
  ###...............####...............######################
  ####................................#####################>#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 107/60   Experience 59906/11
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +9

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Tough as nails   (Level 2)
    Brute            (Level 3)
    Berserker        (Level 1)
    Badass           (Level 2)
    Vampyre          (Level 1)

  Bru->Bru->Bru->Ber->Bad->MVm->TaN->Bad->Fin->Fin->TaN->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   red armor [6/6] (57%) (P)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   nothing
    [c] [ Boots      ]   tactical boots [0/0] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   pistol (2d4) [6/6]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] missile launcher (6d6) [4/4]
    [b] fireproof red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [c] nanofiber red armor [2]
    [d] ballistic duelist armor [2/2] (100%)
    [e] energy shield [0/0] (100%)
    [f] chainsaw (4d6)
    [g] rocket (x10)
    [h] large med-pack
    [i] large med-pack
    [j] large med-pack
    [k] large med-pack
    [l] large med-pack
    [m] large med-pack
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] large med-pack
    [p] large med-pack
    [q] homing phase device
    [r] homing phase device
    [s] envirosuit pack
    [t] thermonuclear bomb
    [u] bulk mod pack
    [v] plasteel boots [2/2] (100%)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Melee      - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Shrapnel   - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Acid       - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Fire       - internal 60%   torso 85%   feet 60% 
    Plasma     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    107 former humans
    79 former sergeants
    27 former captains
    64 imps
    59 demons
    198 lost souls
    35 cacodemons
    24 hell knights
    18 barons of hell
    5 arachnotrons
    6 former commandos
    14 pain elementals
    26 revenants
    9 mancubi
    8 arch-viles
    5 elite former humans
    5 elite former sergeants
    2 elite former captains
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 shambler
    1 Angel of Death
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind
    1 Arena Master

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
  On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
  On level 7 he marched into the Military Base.
  On level 7 he assembled a tactical boots!
  He purified his fellow comrades.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he entered Hell's Armory.
  He destroyed the evil within and reaped the rewards!
  On level 14 he assembled a ballistic armor!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 17 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
  On level 17 he found the Azrael's Scythe!
  He then destroyed the Unholy Cathedral!
  On level 18 he assembled a fireproof armor!
  On level 18 he assembled a nanofiber armor!
  On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
  He cracked the Vaults and cleared them out!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 berserk! You need to taste blood!
 You swap your weapons. You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit!
 You are hit! You are hit! You need to taste blood!
 You swap your weapons. You need to taste blood!
 You are hit! Boom! You are hit! You dodge! Boom! You are hit! Boom! You need
 to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 The Spider Mastermind hits you. You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations!
 You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now. You're going berserk!

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 276 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 225 of those were killed.
 7 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 12 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 32 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 26 killed the bitch and survived.
 5 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 11:09 by Sylph »
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LuckyDee

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Re: [H|100%|24|YAAM] Strongman Diamond (thank god that's over)
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 11:51 »

Those 3, alone, are pretty much enough to make it through the whole game, especially if you P-mod your nanofibre before you B-mod it and keep using the 100%-75% range of it until you run out of 'disposable' armour and take the plunge to turn it into nanofibre. It's shocking just how little damage P-modded red takes - for most of the game it takes less damage than it recovers from armour shards! Likewise, B-mod a red and use it all the way to <50% before you put the T mod on for fireproof.

Impressive run, shows what you can achieve if you put your mind to it and make sure to learn from your mistakes. Congrats!

Could you give a little more clarification to your comments on the armours above? Seems like something I could learn a trick or two from, as well...
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Sylph

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Re: [H|100%|24|YAAM] Strongman Diamond (thank god that's over)
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2013, 04:14 »

Could you give a little more clarification to your comments on the armours above? Seems like something I could learn a trick or two from, as well...
Of course, sorry if I didn't explain it properly.

Power-modded red armour takes *very* little damage from enemy attacks, but as I'm sure you know, armour loses half it's potency when reduced to 50%. Armour shards repair 25% of a suit of armour.
As such, rather than saving your first red armour (usually the one from anomaly) for a "special occasion", it's often best to power mod it straight away and wear it. Once it reaches 75% durability, take it off (save the rest for a special occasion). Any time you find an armour shard or megasphere, wear the P-modded red before picking it up.
You'll find that, in most games, this single suit of red armour will be all the protection you wear for the next 10 levels or so, because armour shards are common enough to keep it in the 75-100% region.

The other part was about B-modded red armour. A suit of B-modded red armour gives it's full (4) protection until it's reduced to 50%. That means, you get 150% of 'full' (4) protection from it, which is 3-times as much as a usual suit of red. This makes it a great 'backup' armour for when your P-modded red hits 75% and you want to take it off.
Furthermore, you don't have to repair the B-modded red, so you can save all your armour shards for the P-modded suit. The reason for this is that building B+T mods on a suit of armour will make a suit of 100% fireproof armour. Instead of repairing the B-modded red, just put a T mod on it to turn it into fireproof before it's destroyed. Fireproof red armour is exceedingly effective later in the game, beccause of the 55% resistance it gives you to archviles, mancubi, and revenants. It can also be stacked with an environment suit to give you 80% resistance to fire, which is a great way to almost ignore all of the damage from the cyberdemon!
Similar to this, stacking resistances on melee-protection armour (duelist, ballistic) by using the ballistic assembly (A+T) is available in most games, and can take you to 80% melee resistance, which is great to change to when enemies get cose to you. Remembering to use it against barons, revenants, nightmare demons, lost souls, angel of death, and the spider mastermind can be extremely effective.

Finally, if youre taking an absolute TON of damage (which only really applies to wacky games like strongman) then even the two above strategies might not be enough, in which case you can P-mod the *third* suit of red you find, then turn your *old* P-modded red into nanofibre as a 'backup' armour. I can't with good faith advise building nanofibre armour in most games, it's a bit specific to a character using the berserker trait. If you find a nano pack, that is a *much* better final fate for your trusty P-modded red, althought I tend to prefer building whizkid 2 whenever I find a nano pack. :)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 04:51 by Sylph »
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LuckyDee

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Re: [H|100%|24|YAAM] Strongman Diamond (thank god that's over)
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 03:34 »

Furthermore, you don't have to repair the B-modded red, so you can save all your armour shards for the P-modded suit. The reason for this is that building B+T mods on a suit of armour will make a suit of 100% fireproof armour.

Sweet, do you know if this goes for other assembled armors too? I have the habit of only assembling at 100% durability, which now sounds like an unnecessary precaution.

I understand the benefits of the fire resistance of course, although using it in a melee game (-30% resistance) sounds painful, unless you plan your armor switches carefully - very carefully.

It can also be stacked with an environment suit to give you 80% resistance to fire, which is a great way to almost ignore all of the damage from the cyberdemon!
Similar to this, stacking resistances on melee-protection armour (duelist, ballistic) by using the ballistic assembly (A+T) is available in most games, and can take you to 80% melee resistance, which is great to change to when enemies get cose to you. Remembering to use it against barons, revenants, nightmare demons, lost souls, angel of death, and the spider mastermind can be extremely effective.

Wow. I really need to pay more attention to the equipment. Great tips!

Finally, if youre taking an absolute TON of damage (which only really applies to wacky games like strongman) then even the two above strategies might not be enough, in which case you can P-mod the *third* suit of red you find, then turn your *old* P-modded red into nanofibre as a 'backup' armour. I can't with good faith advise building nanofibre armour in most games, it's a bit specific to a character using the berserker trait.

It'll at least ensure you'll be taking a ton of damage, with a -40% move speed modifier :S
It still beats no armor in a lot of scenarios, but I'd be praying for even a green armor if this were my last resort.
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Sylph

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Re: [H|100%|24|YAAM] Strongman Diamond (thank god that's over)
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 07:00 »

Sweet, do you know if this goes for other assembled armors too? I have the habit of only assembling at 100% durability, which now sounds like an unnecessary precaution.
I'm unsure which it works for and which it does not. I think the reason it works for fireproof is probably something to do with the bulk mod - I'd be over the moon if it kept the old durability, because it would let me do bulk before power, and have a 200% fireproof armour! 
Either way, the benefit here is more to do with getting the most out of the bulk mod's extra 100% durability before you lose it (down to 100%) than it is about getting the 'bonus' repair from below 100%.

Quote
I understand the benefits of the fire resistance of course, although using it in a melee game (-30% resistance) sounds painful, unless you plan your armor switches carefully - very carefully.
Understood. The truth is, it's only when your armour protection becomes *so* strong (75%+ damage mitigation) that it becomes worth spending a turn changing based on situation. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to get this kind of protection on a regular basis.

Quote
It'll at least ensure you'll be taking a ton of damage, with a -40% move speed modifier :S
It still beats no armor in a lot of scenarios, but I'd be praying for even a green armor if this were my last resort.
Yeah, as I said it's pretty specific to strongman games. With good strategy, a strongman marine spends a lot more time taking damage while toe-to-toe fighting than she does while moving. It takes at least 5 turns of standing still punching to kill anything remotely tough, so the -40% movespeed doesn't really come into it. On top of that, consider the amount of non-fire enemy attacks that do damage in the 5-10 region, add in the 60% resistance from berserk (so the damage is in the 2-4 region) and you quickly come around to the massive difference a nanofibre red can make even if you *are* moving while berserk (including it's 50% speed bonus).
Oh, I just had a win where I was testing whizkid 2, and realised how potent a P-mod can be on nanofibre and fireproof red. Worth bearing in mind as a 'bonus' in any game where your item drops convince you to go for whizkid 2.
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thelaptop

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Re: [H|100%|24|YAAM] Strongman Diamond (thank god that's over)
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 17:31 »

Unlocking on request.  =)
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Re: [H|100%|24|YAAM] Strongman Diamond (thank god that's over)
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2013, 21:26 »

Well, I guess I'd better post here, since I requested the unlock.  :P

Like LuckyDee, I also always do the unnecessary precaution of modding stuff only if it's already at 100%.  Serves me right for not reading spoilers, I guess.  :P  Also, I usually neglect ballistic and fireproof armours because I'm afraid I'll forget about the protection penalties, and take a ton of damage, but from your description, I can see that, if handled right, they can be quite beneficial!

I agree about nanofibre armour being extremely useful in strongman games.  I've also found it helpful in conventional games too, when armour is scarce.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 21:29 by Tormuse »
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