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Author Topic: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC  (Read 45118 times)

LuckyDee

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2014, 06:04 »

Been going through the rules you listed as 'must read', and it's all a lot more straightforward than I expected. It's also a lot more elaborate than I expected, but I more or less knew what I got myself into, so I'll try not to complain too much (:

With DnD being the rules-heavy game it is, and you as a player more or less being encouraged to use them to the full extent (as opposed to doing something stupid like create a character that has actual psychological/emotional depth whoops) I do believe I've found a pretty big flaw in the combat rules. It's not something that can be exploited in any give situation, but still... Here's what:

DnD expects you to work out combat situations on a tile grid, and by the time you get to the rules about line of sight, line of effect, cover and concealment, it becomes apparent why. Now take the rules on Targeting What You Can't See (p.281). Let's say my character has been blinded while using some kind of ranged attack at one or more enemies which he was perfectly able to hit on his previous turn. The TWYCS rules proceed to explain how my character can glean information on his enemies positions and instruct me to then pick a square and "...only the DM knows whether you guessed the wrong square or your attack just missed.".
Well, I'm actually part of a 5 player group, and since all the other players can see just fine, the grid with all the little buggers drawn/placed on it remains on the table. "Hmmmmmm.... I'm blind, failed every check concerned with tracking my enemies... I'm gonna go out on a limb and fire my arrow on that square containing the model/drawing of the Orc Warlord. It's a long shot, but I'm feeling Lucky."

Sure, there's ways to tackle this, but you'd expect a game that constructed such an intricate web of rules to found itself on would be a bit more sensible about this. And of course I still have about 350+ pages of rulebook left unread, so the answer might well be found there.

So someone please set me straight: how does the rulebook tackle this, and if not, how will this be tackled on the PBF?
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2014, 07:26 »

I'll admit that never came up with my games thus far, mostly on account of never having a game with stealthed/invisible monsters. That being said in a PBF it's easy to handle. There are two situations here:
- If nobody in the party sees the monster than the resolution is simple, I don't show the token for the monster on map
- If only some party members don't see the monster then I can hide the token, take a image snapshot of the map for posting to "General public", unhide it then make another snapshot and PM it to the ones with line of sight to hidden monster

That being said targetting unseen monsters is a -5 to hit even if you pick the square correctly - which makes a *huge* difference - and disallows combat advantage on top of that (and potentially cuts off some powers if they explicitly mention you need to see the target) meaning we could as well keep the tokens on board for sake of ease of use and it'd still provide notable effect on the outcome of battle.

Edit: Lokee what I found. It looks like, according to minds of CharOp forums which usually know their stuff, "not knowing where someone is" is *rarely* a thing, silly as it might sound.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 11:43 by Malek Deneith »
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LuckyDee

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2014, 01:05 »

- If nobody in the party sees the monster than the resolution is simple, I don't show the token for the monster on map
- If only some party members don't see the monster then I can hide the token, take a image snapshot of the map for posting to "General public", unhide it then

That oughta do the trick, yeah.

Edit: Lokee what I found.

And that only serves to fuck everything up again. This guy must be Dutch, because this is just what our government does when it finds a hole in its rules and regulations: slap enough rules on it to not fix anything, but to at least make it completely incomprehensible. I vote we take your personal alternative and ignore the "Hidden Club".

Two more questions:

####1...
###Y2...
##X34...


In the above example, character X can Bull Rush character Y to squares 2 and 4. Not to 1 (character Y can't walk directly to it, so can't be pushed there) and not to 3 (the distance between X and Y wouldn't be increased). 2 makes total sense, 4 doesn't but just looking at the rules both are valid target squares. Correct?

########
####Y###
.X.Z....
########


In the above example, X and Z are allies. Provided that X has enough speed to cross the 3 squares to the position directly south of Y, moving there and attacking constitutes a valid Charge - even though the direction of the move and that of the attack run perpendicular to each other. If Z were standing further east, he could have made the Charge from Z's current position, but because Z's an ally he can move like Z isn't there as long as he doesn't end up in Z's square. Correct?
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2014, 01:31 »

Question 1: Yes, indeed (though I'll admit the rule that disallows #1 is easily missable, I think even I forgot about the damn corners myself in past)

Question 2: Yes to part one, not sure if I get second part correctly though, but if I do - in second scenario you couldn't make the charge because the attack happens *after* you finish the move, and you can't finish in an elegible position to attack. Corners block... no, wait hold on a second... *flip* *flip* *flip* No, actually it seems you might be able to charge but only because - by my interpretation - you'd be able to draw line of effect standing in one of the corner positions next to where Z woud be standing in this scenario. You *wouldn't* be able to make the attack from Z's space since you can't stop there and the attack happens after move as mentioned.
Well frag. Thanks to SKRen mentioning something I re-read charge and we missed one important thing - each square of the charge movement needs to bring you "closer to the enemy" so part 1 of the question would have an answer of "no, because you'd need to stop in a square where Z is". Part 2 would be possible because with Z moving a spot to the east you could stop in the spot where he stood in part 1.

***

On unrelated note I'm going to use this opportinity to point out two things that are easy to confuse. Pay attenton people, this will be on the test... (...of you combat prowess):

1) Difference between Burst and Blast (X marks the character):

This is a Close Blast 3:
.....
.***.
.***.
.***.
..X..


This is a Close Burst 1:
.....
.***.
.*X*.
.***.
.....


Learn the difference, it just might save your life

2) Attack and damage rolls for powers that hit more than one target:
- Melee and Ranged powers that do that roll Attack AND Damage rolls FOR EACH TARGET
- Close and Area powers roll Attack FOR EACH TARGET and Damage ONCE
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 11:34 by Malek Deneith »
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2014, 13:47 »

Well, for what it's worth I got five characters now. With that I am announcing end of recruitment phase, with team consisting of:

Quill the Female Kobold Fighter (Martial Defender) [Xander Morhaime]
Isirius Thray the Male Kalashtar Gloom Pact Hexblade (Arcane Striker) [LuckyDee]
Gosok Skyborn the Male Mul Runepriest (Divine Leader) [S.K. Ren]
Marek the Male Deva Cleric (Divine Leader) [thelaptop]
Berak the Shardmind Shaper Psion (Psionic Controller) [slave]

Sorry ZicherCZ and Nightfalcon - you're still welcome to drop in characters for the reserve player list (should anyone drop out for some reason), but considering it's been a week and I've seen nothing of either of your characters while others pushed through the barrage of my nitpicks and suggestions I figured they deserve the priority on getting the spots. That and I'd like to get this show on the road lest we get bored and wander off.

The initial IC post will be made tommorow, probably after I get back from work so within ~18 hours? thelaptop I'm still going to need some sort of pic for a token for you lest you want me to go with whatever default cleric portrait I get my grubby paws on.
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thelaptop

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2014, 15:01 »

Ah, go ahead with grubby cleric picture -- it's alright by me.

Work caught up and made it annoying to source for a nice picture on my end.
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S.K. Ren

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2014, 15:08 »

For reference. Mul's don't have hair, but mine does due to Theme shenanigans. So feel free to call me out on it. I'm sure it will be hilarious.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2014, 22:51 »

For reference. Mul's don't have hair, but mine does due to Theme shenanigans. So feel free to call me out on it. I'm sure it will be hilarious.

A mullet?
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slave

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2014, 06:42 »

For theme reasons my character was rescued from a dungeon by somebody.

- If our group has already been together for a while, I can just say that the rest of you rescued me.

- If the group is just now getting assembled, I will need a volunteer for the position of the person who rescued me and along whom I have travelled after that.

So depending on how the story begins, I might need a volunteer.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2014, 06:45 »

Unless you are an apparent total pain in the ass, this sounds like something Isirius would do. He’s been travelling a lot, so chances of him running into a situation like this are pretty good too.\

At Malek’s discretion, I’m your man.
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2014, 08:52 »

For reference. Mul's don't have hair, but mine does due to Theme shenanigans. So feel free to call me out on it. I'm sure it will be hilarious.

I'm not sure how "posessed by an air spirit" translates to "grew some hair" but whatever, if you want me to make fun of you I am not going to complain :P

@up - my discretion is that if you're fine with it then I'm fine with it.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2014, 08:59 »

"Posessed by a hair spirit?"

@up - my discretion is that if you're fine with it then I'm fine with it.

And thanks.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2014, 09:06 »

@slave: given the first IC post, how do you see this - we arrived at Fallcrest together some two weeks ago?
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slave

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2014, 09:11 »

Yeah, that sounds good.
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slave

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Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2014, 09:19 »

Also, I note that my character (Berak) does not have a gender. Since calling Berak 'it' seems a bit awkward, I think I'll refer to Berak as 'he'.
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