DoomRL > Discussion

Balancing Assemblies

<< < (6/6)

Sambojin:
Long time, no post.....

Hmmm. I can understand people's thoughts on the value of certain weapons, but much of it comes down to liked play-styles and builds. Most certainly character builds.

Almost every weapon is useful with the right build. Shottyman reloads rocket launchers. Running up to WK(2) still gives the massively powerful option of Juggler along the way. And then there's all the master traits skewing things further on "is this any good?"

There's some assemblies that are too good in comparison to anything else available on a regular basis. Tac Boots, Tactical Shotties, Speed Loaders for pistol runs.

But it's all so very contextual. How good is an O or N mod? Absolutely friggin fantastic on any armour or weapon. You've just saved yourself inventory slots and build space, all with one random, very lucky find.

So that's why I find N and O based assemblies "not that great". They were already awesome as 1-mod weapons or armour. The WK(2) requirements for bigger assemblies is a hassle, but it has it's advantages (Juggler). Even having the option to whip out a DB or shotty or RL at a moment's notice is fantastic, and the big assemblies pale in comparison. So they're not really worthwhile building towards, especially O and N based ones, because the build does a lot with only a smattering of mods applied to non-assembly weapons.

I'd personally deal with it by increasing the number of assemblies (basic and advanced, but not O or N based ones), and let the player work it out. It'll be impossible to balance all weapons and armours due to the variation in character builds and play-styles, so just slightly nerf the "really good ones", and add to an abundance of options.

Maybe make the wall not have a ML in it either. I know, it's heresy, but that's what makes other RLs seem weak (and there's not enough types to build). Give a chainsword, rather than a chainsaw, in the CC too.

Maybe even make a mod that's a "You can mod this weapon more now" mod, about as rare as O/N/F mods, so bigger assemblies aren't always about character build. And the character builds are more key to balance and usefulness than any particular weapon/mod/assembly. Because they can and will happen in every game, entirely controlled by the player. A few masters aren't great, but maybe that just means others are too good.

But a slight nerf to a couple of assemblies, a slight boost to some, and more of everything is how I'd do it. You can't balance everything, but you can give enough options to the player that it's up to them on what they want to overpower in any way they can.

Evilpotatoe:
The problem about playstyles is that not all currently work.
Same for masteries : I agree Ammochain is too powerful (so is BER, which isn't even a mastery), but some are completely useless (Bullet dance, Entrenchment, scavenger...), and ones like gun kata or shottyhead would have great potential IF only the playstyle they fit with worked as intended.

Agree that O and N are to good to be wasted on (bad) assemblies.  Well, N nearly always end-up on a nanomachic plasma for me (and antigrav boots for many other).  But wasting O for non-repairable armors (or N for cursed ones) is a funny idea :)

Increasing assemblies will be useless if they remain worse than regular weapons.  But giving WK the possibility to mod assemblies 2/3.. maybe 5 times would probably change this (we gotta keep in mind that a 5-modded assembly would cost 3+2 mods, so I'm not sure this would be too powerful).  The problem I see is that currently, WK already seems like a must to me :
1 single lvl of WK gives me 4 extra damages on my shotties, +A/P on armors & boots.  The second levels makes my boots awesome, allows me to make AOP armors, turns my beloved shotty to P3T2, which is really sweet, and gives some other cool buffs (Bs and Ps on BFG, and so...)
=> If I increased the number of mods dropped (and/or made assemblies more moddable), I'd probably also increase basic mod limit, at least on weapons, for everyone, and maybe nerf some mods, so that WK isn't mandatory (nor Overpowered)

About the ML from the wall... I'd agree to replace it (but probably keep it in C-Area).  I extremely rarely use ML (I prefer Tac RL, mainly for jumping), but it's a great weapon, and it kinda makes people forget about any other possible RL in the game.  In such case, don't forget to remove it from abyssal/skulls too (I never understood why there was one here) ^^

Shadowfury333:
I don't know if this was ever the case before, but what if cornershooting was removed, and instead flinching was added? Basically, enemies would either have a chance to not act for a few 1/10ths of a second (weighted by damage dealt in a step) or have a delay weighted by damage taken that step. This would allow running and gunning, since enemies being hit would hit back less often, so the player isn't committing suicide on UV by going out in the open. It would also better fit the source material, since 90s FPS games pretty much all had a flinching mechanic.

This alone would help Shottyhead, and maybe also Gun Kata, though with Gun Kata I wonder if that wouldn't also need something like "Alt. Fire now allows choosing two targets, one for each pistol, to be shot at simultaneously". (NB I am strongly biased towards Gun Kata, so I'm probably asking for it to be overpowered without fully realizing it)

My first concern would be making the game too easy, but given that the current situation involves a strategy which takes no damage by basically shooting into the dark, I doubt it would make it that much easier.

Sereg:
I like the idea of the flinching mechanic, though I have no concept of how it might affect game balance. Surely it makes more sense and fits the source material better then the current cornershooting mechanic, though.

It also adds an interesting twist to radar shooting - now that you know something's there, do you risk a step into the open, hoping you inflicted flinching with the minimal damage that remained from the shotgun dropoff?

Evilpotatoe:
Nice idea indeed.  But one other missing thing atm is the possibility to know when a monster will attack.
When you face a Cybie, you can dodge before he shoots, then shoot it until he reloads.

For all other monsters, you just can hope they won't attack. (exception for sergeants)
I think this mechanic would be very important in allowing strategies based on dodging.


You can make choices based on the informations you get.
If a lost soul is charging you, you'll dodge it... but not if there is a baron behind the corner.  Or maybe you'll dodge in some other direction, but not if you are in melee with a spider, which will then be able to shoot at you.


Currently, we just don't have informations about monsters actions, so... it's based on luck or statistics (and in UV, statistics are very bad for the doomGuy fighting in the open :)
No need to mention that, in N!, monsters attack all-the-time, with insane accuracy, making this strat clearly unplayable. (and imp/cacos/barons... don't have any reload time.  In comparison with the original doom, they used to attack like mad, indeed, but had an attack animation time.  Also, the doomguy inherently had GunRunner, which helps a lot, since shooting at monsters didn't turn him into a sitting duck :)

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[*] Previous page