Chaosforge Forum

  • July 22, 2019, 22:48
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Ideas!  (Read 3937 times)

Darwinism

  • Private FC
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Ideas!
« on: April 02, 2007, 20:01 »

Not sure where else to post this, but here goes!

Equipment:
Night vision goggles: Would allow you to see much further in those pesky dark halls. Would require batteries that are used up after X number of turns.

Motion trackers: Lets you see aliens within 10 meters. I know, they stand still till they see you, but meh. Also would require batteries.

Sentry gun: Has X amount of rounds to fire and automatically engages aliens. Also really, really pisses them off. (Makes them swarm it if they're within range)

Proximity mines: Detonates when an alien steps on a space around it for frag grenade-like damage.

Welder: Closing off vents! Batteries needed, again.



Any other ideas?


Edit: Also, the gyro-stabilizer didn't interfere with the Marine's ability to wear armor. But I guess that's a balance issue. That could lead, of course, to more stages of armor; gyro-stabilizers with the armor included, heavy armor, powered armor, so on. Rather than... uh. Flak jackets which aren't even used anymore IRL(We have better)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 21:36 by Darwinism »
Logged

zaimoni

  • Greater Elder
  • Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2007, 21:40 »

Looks like the right place to me....

Snap impressions (assuming these are actually in-theme for the original series):
* night vision goggles: ignoring play balance for a moment, the light-amplifier version of these should be either autoadaptive (not allowing better vision if the area is already well-lit), or blindness goggles in normal light levels.  [Physically, they should be blindness goggles in low-light...but that's truly worthless for gameplay.]  The IR version...won't go into too much detail, but they clearly won't be any good looking past an incendiary grenade.
* Proximity grenade: exactly what would you want to do with these?  Tactically, an explored room either doesn't have useful items (do not return unless shortest-route) or does (don't want to cut off own access).

Closing off vents has already been discussed: http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=766.msg7381#msg7381 .
Logged

zaimoni

  • Greater Elder
  • Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2007, 21:50 »

It's not that we have better than flak jackets; it's that the modern version of a flak jacket is unnoticeable under street clothing.

More interesting (recalling the U.S. DoJ body armor rating criteria) is that it is a nontrivial engineering feat to construct light body armor that is effective against both firearms and blades.  Blades, of course, being more analogous to alien claws.
Logged

Darwinism

  • Private FC
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 13:53 »

But we do have better; the ceramic inserts for LBVs. I suppose they're roughly the same idea as flak jackets, but much more advanced. Also, the CMC in Aliens wore clamshell-style breastplates and such.

Also, I want to see Alice from AvP2 in the game. Oh yes.
Logged

zaimoni

  • Greater Elder
  • Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2007, 15:33 »

While they may be comparable weight to Vietnam-era flak jackets in use, ceramic inserts (intuitively, "shatter plates") are not the same concept as a flak jacket (intuitively, "ballistic net").

Plasteel is the closest in-genre analog of ceramic inserts.  Although I doubt plasteel shatters by design (and thus is actually compatible with the game mechanics, unlike ceramic inserts).  I don't know whether it's in the game, though.
Logged

Psion

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2007, 15:51 »

There was a very impressive real world example of advanced combat armor on Future Weapons.  It was a suit of armor made from individual ceramic metal alloy "scales" lined up in such a way to disperse the impact energy.  It easily took multiple hits from a variety of weapons but the most impressive thing was when they detonated a grenade under it at point blank range.  None of the shrapnel penetrated what so ever and, while the armor looked beat up and ugly, was still somewhat intact.

One thing: are you going to put in that man portable plasma cannon they mention in the colonial marine technology manual?  They make it sound like a single rate of fire weapon with massive armor penetration.  Sort of like a railgun I guess.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 15:52 by Psion »
Logged

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4444
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2007, 15:53 »

You mean the PIG? Yeah, it would probably added with the sentry bots.
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

DaEezT

  • Local Inquisitor
  • Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2007, 00:21 »

- night vision goggles: might be useful in a later version to counter the low light effect of certain areas. But currently, there are no objectives that require the player to fully explore such a low light area.

- sentry gun: Not as item for the player to deploy.

- Motion tracker: Was discussed during development and shortly after release. Has to be in, hard to balance tho.

- About weapons, armor & realism: Keep in mind that this is a fictional setting and the primary concern is balancing it. Names are just applied for show. and can be changed easily ;)
Currently there are two armors that allow the use of heavy weapons and two that don't. More will probably be added later. The 'plasteel armor' from Aliens also came up during development and will find its way in someday.
Logged
"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

zaimoni

  • Greater Elder
  • Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2007, 00:41 »

One wouldn't want the game mechanics to be too realistic, anyway.

After reviewing the RGR_ threads on the design requirements for permadeath games, it became clear that an "internally accurate wargame"/"internally accurate combat system for a game" is almost by definition awful gameplay.  ["almost", as a concession to limited imagination...I certainly can't think of a way to make internally accurate combat playable.]
Logged

Darwinism

  • Private FC
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2007, 21:21 »

I'm not asking for real-world accuracy; we're talking about a game with genetically-engineered bugs that have molecular acid for blood, after all. I'd like to see the pulse rifle have a 99-round clip, though, and a rename on the MP5(Neither are huge issues).

Edit: Also, how about weapons with ammo still in them?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 21:26 by Darwinism »
Logged

zaimoni

  • Greater Elder
  • Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2007, 23:18 »

Weapons with ammo still in them: cf. http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=766.msg7367#msg7367 .

pulse rifle/99-round clip: cf. http://angband.oook.cz/rgrm.php?showpost=93625 .  Intentionally nerfed to 60, there were playbalance problems.

I still find it very unusual to actually use up a pulse rifle clip between reloads, but it should be superior to the smartgun in some statistic.
Logged

arch_8ngel

  • Private FC
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2007, 02:27 »

The only gripe I have is that you can find lots of useful heavy weapons out of sequence with finding a gyro stabilizer.
Or, find a gyro stabilizer way too early for it to be safe to wear around while you look for heavy weapons.

For instance, yesterday I found a gyro on floor 1 of the military tower, but no heavy weapons until floor 4, at least.

By the canon of the "Aliens" universe, the Smart Gun has the gyro stabilizer built in as an integral component.  You don't need one without the other.  By comparison, the grenade launcher has no need of a gyro stabilizer, because the gyros entire purpose is to keep you from falling over while the smart gun aims itself and fires at a high rate.  Since the grenade launcher is pitifully underpowered anyway, maybe it shoudn't require the gyro at all (it certainly didn't in the movie)

Also, rather than making the smart gun what is basically a two component weapon (three if you have to count building up a worthwhile supply of ammunition), perhaps it should have the gyro built in, forcing you to strip your heavier armor to wield the bulkier weapon (keeping the post heavy weapon attack/defense balance).  Maybe this would unbalance gameplay, but it would match the concept of the Smart Gun better than treating the gyro stabilizer as a completely separate component.

Perhaps to maintain balance with a "more obtainable" smart gun you reduce the player weapon capacity to a sidearm and a primary weapon (that could be light/medium/heavy).  I think in the movie if they were toting a smart gun...that was it.

While we're at it, how about a flame thrower?  Maybe that could be combined with the addition of "breeding rooms" full of eggs or something that could hatch when disturbed.  It would be safer and more efficient to torch the room that to shoot the eggs and induce the remaining eggs to spawn juves.

Anyway, it's a great game so far.  I killed the queen after a few tries, but was mauled during my escape.  I think that would be the crucial use of the motion sensor.  If all the aliens are immobile unless found on the ascent, then that's fine, it shouldn't do much to expose the unexplored areas.  But on the way down, with all hell breaking loose, it would be good to detect a "safer" route to the bottom of the complex.  Also, if it only shows blips on the map, then you don't know the strength, just the quantity.

I'm looking forward to any upcoming improvements!  Thanks for a great game.
Logged

DaEezT

  • Local Inquisitor
  • Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2007, 13:04 »

By the canon of the "Aliens" universe, the Smart Gun has the gyro stabilizer built in as an integral component.  You don't need one without the other.  By comparison, the grenade launcher has no need of a gyro stabilizer, because the gyros entire purpose is to keep you from falling over while the smart gun aims itself and fires at a high rate.  Since the grenade launcher is pitifully underpowered anyway, maybe it shoudn't require the gyro at all (it certainly didn't in the movie)
I don't remember a grenade launcher from the movie but ours fires 60mm grens (todays standard is 40mm) and maybe they are so long and hard that they require a gyro ;)
Also, while Aliens is a great inspiration, we don't want to be limited to what is/was shown in the movie. There are also other potential candidates for the heavy weapon slot (like the PIG) and the overall idea is to have a balancing element that basically comes down to firepower vs protection.

Also, rather than making the smart gun what is basically a two component weapon (three if you have to count building up a worthwhile supply of ammunition), perhaps it should have the gyro built in, forcing you to strip your heavier armor to wield the bulkier weapon (keeping the post heavy weapon attack/defense balance).  Maybe this would unbalance gameplay, but it would match the concept of the Smart Gun better than treating the gyro stabilizer as a completely separate component.
Having smart gun "bundles" might be interesting. Maybe one bundle as a reward for a side quest or in a special room that always appears in the military tower. But always bundling them together would (partly) defeat the purpose of the slot system.

Perhaps to maintain balance with a "more obtainable" smart gun you reduce the player weapon capacity to a sidearm and a primary weapon (that could be light/medium/heavy).  I think in the movie if they were toting a smart gun...that was it.
Nah, I think two slots would be too little. The idea is that the marine has a pistol holster that holds the sidearm (cowboy style at the thigh) and every primary weapon comes with a shoulder strap, so you can carry it slung across your shoulder while you're using another weapon and the heavy weapon is always attached to the armor itself.
Also, in Aliens, at least one of the smart gun marines carried a shotty as backup weapon.

While we're at it, how about a flame thrower?  Maybe that could be combined with the addition of "breeding rooms" full of eggs or something that could hatch when disturbed.  It would be safer and more efficient to torch the room that to shoot the eggs and induce the remaining eggs to spawn juves.
Kornel had/has big plans for the flamer, so rest assure that it'll make it into the game at some point. But it'll probably be a heavy weapon :p
Logged
"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

arch_8ngel

  • Private FC
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas!
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2007, 14:36 »

I would have thought the Smart Gun marine's shotty was a sawed off (ie. sidearm).  I see your point on balance vs canon though.

As I recall the flamer was attached to the Smart Gun as one system in the movie...you know, the scene where Vasquez is pissed because she can use the flamer but isn't allowed to fire the smart gun because of the cryo lines. But for balance I could see it taking up your heavy slot by itself.

Back on the grenades...if they're going to take a heavy slot and require a gyro, just make them worth a damn.

I'm looking forward to the "real" version once it comes around (just like DiabloRL...killed the Butcher and now I need more!)
Logged
Pages: [1]