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Author Topic: Worst master trait  (Read 1675 times)

Faintly

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Worst master trait
« on: May 29, 2017, 11:28 »

It's bullet dance, right?

-

bullets in gun is more of a bottleneck than fire speed. -not what you want

SoG5 gives you insane fast shots anyway. -redundant

the numerical boost isn't even that good: triggerhappy + bulletdance gives you 2 shots in 1.5 times the time. -33% faster shots. 2 levels of finesse gives you 30% faster shots on every single weapon type and access to juggler and whizkid. -outclassed. Next level is 3/2, 50% faster which isn't pulling away from finesse.

longer fire time with more shots fired is bad because of how dodging works. Later bullets in burst may be wasted with knockback. -hidden costs

_

It looks like the trait doesn't even become good if you use it only with appropriate gear, like nanomachic assembly in one hand and combat pistol in the other, or if you dedicated a bunch of inventory and take finesse + juggler to fight like neo in matrix 1.

_

After that one I can't see a comparably weak trait. maybe survivalist sits between this one and the rest?

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Sereg

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 13:27 »

Just sayin'.

Personally, my pick would be Entrenchment, or whatever the technician rapidfire mastery is. I'm missing the details and on my phone so can't really check, but if memory serves it was something like added resistances while chainfiring, which I find to be utterly pointless because chainfiring lasts something like 3 to 5 rounds at best if you don't have ammochain... Which you don't.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 13:41 by Sereg »
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2017, 07:02 »

Would agree with MBD.  The op forgot to mention the terrible blocks : Hellrunner, Eagle Eye, Brute.
In other words : you empty your magazine faster...but miss your targets a lot, and if you happen to get short of ammo, you are not even unable to zerk in, nor to run efficiently for your life.


Survivalist?  Well... it sucks, you're right.  But I actually used it to get my AoHu UV win.
I was astounded with the ammount of damages I could sustain.  It was really impressive, and ridiculous.
In fact, in this game, I did something I never did before : I tanked out the whole mortuary.  (Letting myself hit so that viles burn the corpses and so on... I was somehow playing "entrenchment-style", but with a 18 or 20 HP marine...).
Somehow close to the way a melee build character would have played... but with MSV replacing the berserk trait.
The reason I chose this crappy skill for that challenge was that my previous scout all died to boredom and/or lack of attention, which kills you very quickly when you visit hell.
I only remember two of them, but one died of a plasma burst while waiting, and the other... ahem, mistakenly walked over lava with his nice phaseshift suit and [A] modded tac boots.
My stupid survivalist probably made a few similar mistakes, but didn't care much about it, and just made it !

So, I'd say its a shitty skill, but I wouldn't rate it useless



Entrenchment and Shottyhead are quite terrible too but I doubt they are as bad as MBD.

MEn's problem is probably more the prerequisites and blocks than the skill itself).  I have to admit I only used this trait once or twice... so I could say I did.
TH is, from my POV, a negative pick; but only one level is required.
I don't see much interest in picking Bad(ass), but it's not a useless skill.
If I'm right, the Fin(esse) block isn't that dramatic either, since you have a direct access to WK, which lets you craft decent toys.
The Rel(oader) block is probably the worse problem, since crafting a nanomachic weapon is a good solution, but can be quite hard to reach, and rapid fire weapons reload time are too high.

Of course, another drawback of this skill is that it does work ONLY if you're using chainfire.
Usually, I sometimes use chainfire to kill big enemies faster, but more often, I just use the 1st step, to save some ammo.


Shottyhead... well, the concept is funny, but blocking SOB on shotguns makes them pretty useless imo.
Unless you craft an elephant gun, you can't rely enough on knockback.  Also, you'll waste your shells too fast.  And what for, dodge ?  Cornershooting is (alas), way more efficient.  Btw, elephant gun is BAD at cornershooting, which means you have to choose a drawback, while you wouldn't without this trait and his blocks.
With a regular shotgun and SOB2, you are roughly unreacheable if hidden behind a simple corner, so why block this perfection with a useless master trait ?

Of course, later, you can "replace" SOB with P-mods, but you're always OP in mid/late game anyway.  Getting powerful enough at level 2 is better than at level 10.  And stacking P-mods AND SoB remains better than choosing only one :)


At last, I would say Scavenger.
I love its concept, but IIRC, un-crafting assemblies just gives you one mod back, which is completely useless.
Disassembling trigun or BFG10K is a blasphemy, of course, but is probably the only real potential use of this trait in a normal game.
Aside from that, its cool... for people which started a new savefile and need to quickly uncover most assemblies so that their Hell's Armory doesn't get screwed with stupid schematics.

The great thing with this trait is that the prerequisites are actually useful, and it doesn't block useful traits outside of Berserker. (You can even get Brute if necessary !) This, is pretty cool, really.


For the rest...I doubt Gun Kata is very useful either (MSs is probably a zillion times more powerful), but I doubt it's a bad skill.  It can probably be played the way it was designed to be, and might be good if MSs wasn't better.
All the other seem to have a use.  I hate gunrunner, but it seems usable in a way.  MFA is quite weird too, but has a really freaking potential, and most other skills are probably actually good.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:35 by Evilpotatoe »
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khiijol

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 11:47 »

i've found on Ao100 games especially shottyhead with a nanoshrapnel supershotgun + P mod rips through pretty much everything except for cyberdemons
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papilio

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2017, 21:58 »

My rating:

Excellent : Ammochain, Cateye
Good : Vampyre, Blademaster, Gunrunner, Fireangel, Sharpshooter
Mediocre : Army of the Dead, Gun Kata, Shottyhead
Sucks : Survivalist, Bullet Dance, Malicious Blades, Entrenchment, Scavenger
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 21:59 by papilio »
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Tormuse

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 23:03 »

Well, I guess I can throw my opinions about Master Traits in here...  (In order from the Wiki)

Vampyre:  Easily my all-around favourite!  :D  The only trait that lets you charge into a violent fray and come out with more hitpoints than you went in with.  :)

Blademaster:  Probably my least favourite melee trait, but if you can get a melee weapon with a strong enough damage per hit, can get quite powerful.

Malicious Blades:  Very hard to get started, but becomes devastating once it gets going.

Bullet Dance:  Sucks.  Makes you use up bullets faster, without the chance of accuracy benefit, so more of them are wasted.

Gun Kata:  Isn't always terribly practical, but can be a lot of fun.  :)

Sharpshooter:  Like MB, hard to get started, but becomes devastating later.

Army of the Dead:  You have to be cautious about the lack of Finesse and Hellrunner, but you can do absolutely murderous amounts of damage to large monsters very quickly.

Shottyhead:  I used this one to get Masochist Diamond once; it needs lots and lots of shells, since everyone quickly gets pushed to the edges of your range.  Someone did a Shottyhead run with a Focused Double Shotgun which I absolutely need to try at some point.  :)

Fireangel:  Good for avoiding damage, I guess, but not terribly exciting.

Ammochain:  I know my opinion of this is not popular, but I don't like this trait.  I just can't get over the lack of Eagle Eye.  If I'm going to use rapid-fire weapons, I want to hit my targets!

Cateye:  Good for avoiding damage, though mostly in open areas.

Entrenchment:  I've never even tried using this.  It sounds crappy, like it's only useful if I'm standing in the open and letting things shoot at me, and why would I do that?

Survivalist:  Great way to tank your enemies, but overall, I'd much rather do more damage than take it.

Gunrunner:  Impractical, but awesome!  :D  I put it to good use in ArchAoRA, but can't really imagine using it otherwise.

Scavenger:  Most useful in Ao100, but can potentially get you a few extra mods in a regular game too.  Not super useful, but at least it doesn't block any basic traits.



So, overall, I guess it's a toss-up between Bullet Dance and Entrenchment...  For me, Entrenchment gets my vote as worst trait.
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Faintly

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2017, 01:16 »

No way is entrenchment useless! The higher your resist already is the better it gets. 0 to 30% isn't great but 70 to 95% is, it cuts the damage by 6 times. And being a technician trait it's not that hard to get cerberus armor.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 12:36 by Faintly »
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raekuul

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2017, 06:29 »

I almost never make it far enough to reach Master Traits, so I don't have an experienced opinion about them (I usually play Tech aiming for Scavenger), but I will say that a good combination of Blocker traits can keep up with a Master trait when played right (max SoG + max SoB + max EE blocks all the Pistol masteries but it's one hell of a build if you can get to hell). Scavenger is good in theory but because my survivability is an issue (combined with it still being reliant on RNG) I almost never get to make good use of it.

Faintly: The main problem I see with Entrenchment is that you have to be Chain-firing. Unless you have an ammo belt prepared to cover reload times, this is unsustainable since your Chain-fire ends once your clip empties - in other words, your Entrenchment is going to run out right when you need it most. If it lasted for duration plus one it would be almost too good since that would cover reload times - and short of modding your weapon or using an ammo belt you'll always have the full reload time since Entrenchment and Reloader are incompatible.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 06:35 by raekuul »
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Sereg

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Re: Worst master trait
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2017, 12:22 »

Well said, raekuul... The resistances are fantastic. That's not the issue. The issue is the (lack of) duration and the fact that you're vulnerable at the worst times.
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