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Author Topic: Shout at Diablo  (Read 5007 times)

Zephyre Syx

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Shout at Diablo
« on: April 07, 2007, 16:19 »

I've been playing the original diablo lately and is quite pissy because I've worked so hard on leveling a sorceror, and can't go to another difficulty (immediately like, like no yippy do-da tricks).  Now that it brought back the urge to go back to 'bands and work on N'Deep, I was wondering what's your progress with DiabloRL?  Now I've been going through jarulf's manual, and comparing it to actual gameplay (in other words...ya know), I've manage to gather some data that might kickstart ya when you get around to "do the damn thang".  Sounds pushy, but they're only notes.  That's also include mod-ability ideas, possible multiplayer ideas, such and such and suchery.  I've learn to write everything down even if it doesn't fit in with the project in it's current stats.

Diablo vs. Hellfire

This is a "no sh*t" comment, but layoff Hellfire content til most of the bases of diablo is finish.  You may already know that Hellfire is a expansion totally outside blizzard (more like Sierra's "mod version"), but if you also coming out with Programmer Edition, it's a good idea to just weed into hellfire content and get what you need and add your own stuff.
Also note that the pace is different between the RL and the real game. DiabloRL is actually faster.  So it's good to experiment how making each dungeon area 5 levels big instead of 4 levels would work.

Magic characteristics and Speed

You may be able to add more then basic spells on if you use speed to your advantage, because most spells and it's upgrade are based on speed on cast and in play.  Using speed for missles for both magic and arrow can be used as an additional to-hit, on top of using movement from monsters and players as an additional AC (like the one used for doomrl).  So you can see an example of chargebolts having high miss rate, and a fireball having high KA-BOOM rate.  For in play spells like firewall the damage is calculated by the monster's or player's movement speed.  That is, the faster, the less damage and less time over the flamewall tile.
The tricky ones to do are lighting.  Now in the diablo game, lighting is treated like a stationary spell effect like firewall, so you can consider it as in play spell.  You can either do one of the two things, increase the damage more then normal per spell level and use the speed to calculate damage as you would a firewall, or freeze the player on spell cast for the whole duration as it can work well with flash and inferno.
Guardian and Elemental can be summon spells like Golem spells.  Elementals are crazy fast and explodes on impact (just the wall if no enemies in it's los).  Guardians are there, spitting til the spell ends.
Lastly Nova Spell, it's definitly a spell that packs a punch the closer the target is to the player.  Yea, like you used to draw a radius explosion(using 92 and not 360), so does damages dealt for those tiles with each bolt.
Don't forget the cast speed before the actual cast, as interuptions can play just as big a roll as the actual spell.

Mod it up

I may have posted that you could do both.  Have diablo itself inaccessable to browse and edit, and have a mod folder for modded games.  If you have been at phrozenkeeps and saw how .mpq files are fixed up, consist of, and stored, maybe you can find some ideas on storing most of your future data.  Note that most mods aren't zipped and compressed away, so making diablo know how to read both can be essentual.
On the future of mod-ability which have to be discusses later after that feature is possible, we can make it possible not only be able to edit material, but also add scripts.  It will also help to add additional functions, and/or tags for editable data (stuff not used in the game like monster auras, curses, target selections, wilderness, and dungeon locations) for others to tinkled with with their game.

Diablos

Diablo AIN'T diablo without multiplayer.  But for possibilities, how would it work for online play?  No dought it has to be real-time, but with the importants of speed, we could balance that with the framerate.  Spells and arrows can be animated out in real-time during play, but all are faster then on the original game to closely match the single player game.  Having tactics can play a huge roll in determining targets when casting, shooting, or even fighting.  A quick-fire and quick-cast key are influence directly by tactics choosen.  Tactics can be modified by picking target type(demon, undead, creature), hp, level, nonresistant, and distance.  It helps to have multiple tactic slot to edit.

That's all I have.  I hope to see DiabloRL as big a hit as DoomRL is already...

I'll shut up now.
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"Nah, it's not that those ideas are bad, I'm just trying to show you why I think my way of thinking is better."
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Zephyre Syx

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 17:08 »

More notes.  I guess I was't through, but still there's more info that might help.

Strategies

Sometimes knowing game strategies are helpful at developing.  I ran into some helpful stuff that'll might help...

Do NOT jump into a mob or a arrow fight that'll knock you into stun phase, or it could mean insta-death.  When an attack does enough damage, you are stun for a brief moment, but if the next attack is successful wether or not it does high damage, the stun counter is reseted, and you continue to take damage til stun finishes.

Stunning is useful against other foes too to keep it from "return fire", especially annoying fleeing foes thats keep running.  That includes range attackers, and those damned hiddens.  To get a range attacker close, stand behind the doorway, or around the corner out of LoS, and that fool will walk right up to you.  HAMMER HER ASS DOWN!

Game modes, and challenges

What harm will it do to write this down early.  It worked so well with DoomRL to have challenges and not to mention game modes that'll come later, this will definitly help DiabloRL in the future.  We done discuss the difficulties and the game mode's hardcore, and uhm...everlaster or sumthin'?  But how about these cool additions...

Helldiver:  Pure Ironman.  Shrines are slightly more frequent, namely religious shrines.

Evil This Way Comes:  Black deaths are everywhere!

Eternal Desent:  A very, VERY, VERY DEEP dungeon!  It has an end, but you won't see it no time soon.  Oils are availible (a hellfire feature), and are essential to survive.  And the mode can combo with Helldiver.  That also means a tougher game at nightmare, and oh gosh, hell!  "Where body fails, armory prevails."

MiniBoss Parade:  Konami's gradius *wink*.  Uniques, and their mobs are frequent.  Kill unique to open a way down a level.

300:  I'm cheating I know =b.  It's a mode like when you play multiplayer by yourself (more monsters, more hp).  Yea.
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"Nah, it's not that those ideas are bad, I'm just trying to show you why I think my way of thinking is better."
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2007, 06:08 »

Personally I'd rather first see DiabloRL with only Diablo and Hellfire content (yes, I fell that Hellfire was good) before doing any "programmers editions".
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Zephyre Syx

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 17:55 »

Guess what though...I agree.  It's something about hellfire's content that seems more hacked in then fitting in.  That's why I though "programmer's addition" would help most of hellfire stuff kinda fit in, but getting that to fit in in the first place without the programmer's addition would help it to.  (did that make sense?)  Because, uhm... hellfire acts more like a mod then an expansion.  The content itself is good, the dungeons, the classes and the extended bestiary.  But things like, Lighting Wall, Auric Amulet(let you hold 10,000 gp per slot), most accessible spells that weren't in spellbooks before and the fact that the other dungeons are outside the main one...well.
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nokturnal

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2007, 07:31 »

Ok, someone's gotta take the other side here! ;)

I recently tried to play diablo1 again ..i mean i really, really tried, but i just couldnt!
Items, skills, gameplay ..EVERYTHING felt like a gimped d2. the items especially, felt like a big nothing compared to d2..
Please, please, take the story/atmosphere from d1, and ALL the rest from d2! :D
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2007, 10:07 »

But that wouldn't be DiabloRL but Diablo2RL
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n9103

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2007, 17:51 »

nokturnal, you haven't played Titan's Quest then....
Then D2, much less D1, seems like a gimped TQ. :P
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nokturnal

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2007, 12:45 »

malek: well not 100% sure here but i think kornel already has stated that he will be looking at item generation and skills from d2?

n9103: pesonally i think TQ is a disgrace to the hack'n'slash genre. only thing that game had was nice graphics (when the game didnt bug out, which i did ALOT before the first, what 3 patches?), the game was just too easy to exploit. horribly imbalanced skills, boring not-so random generated items, and most importantly, no random generated areas.. seriously, i'd much rather play diablo1 than tq again, but hey, each to his own rightt :P
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RickVoid

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2007, 12:10 »

While we're discussing what we liked/disliked about Diablo 1/2, I'd like to throw in the old time-warp from D1. Got to the bottom of Dlvl 4 with a new character, but don't feel like your ready to go to the next section of the dungeon? Everything dead above you? No, problem. All you had to do was save, exit, click new, and grab the character you used last. Bam, the dungeon is reset, you have everything you had in the last town, and more low-level enemies to slay. This, plus the fact that you are only guaranteed some of the quests on each playthrough, were my most favorite things about D1. In D2, you only get three playthroughs (one per difficulty) and all the quests are guaranteed to be there. Sure, the enemies respawn and it's highly unlikely that you'll have found every item by the end of your third playthrough (which is replayability) but I prefer to pretend to be questing again, rather than admitting that I'm only doing it for items and exp.

Dammit. Now I wanna play Diablo, and I'm stuck at work. Dammit all to Hell.
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nokturnal

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2007, 13:39 »

rickvoid: the restarting feature has been thoroughly discussed, and i think most people disliked this idea, correct me if im wrong..

i suggest you check this thread (for some serious head bashing ;) ): http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=407.0


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RickVoid

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2007, 14:28 »

Oh, I wasn't suggesting we implement this in DiabloRL, I just liked it in Diablo 1.

*EDIT* Also, in the thread you showed me, people were complaining about the restarting in Diablo 2, not 1. Which is what I was doing. *EDIT*

I seem to be alone in that opinion though. :(
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 14:32 by RickVoid »
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GenTechJ

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Re: Shout at Diablo
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2007, 01:19 »

You aren't alone in your opinion RickVoid. It was something I liked about Diablo 1 too. For me I'd love to see a combination of Diablo 1/2. Like I'll go back and play Diablo 1 but miss the skill trees, classes, and items. Then I play Diablo 2 and I miss the graphics of Diablo 1 (yes, I just said I prefer the older graphics to the new 3dish graphics) and the (what seems to me) higher difficulty.

If it was set up as more of time warp for living characters and less of a save scumming feature, I think some people might like it. For example, death for your character means removal of his/her files (aside from mortems and scores), but as long as he/she is still alive, you can warp back and start at level 1 again.
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