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Author Topic: How exactly do fist-only runs work?  (Read 1176 times)

Omega Tyrant

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How exactly do fist-only runs work?
« on: January 04, 2018, 23:39 »

I recently tried going for my first diamond, the Strongman Diamond Badge, and I was under the impression that what weapon is attributed to kills was counted by whatever you had equipped in your primary weapon slot when a monster dies. So for my strategy, I went for Juggler and then had the Chainsaw/Azrael's Scythe in my prepared slot while keeping my primary slot empty, thus still allowing me to deal substantial damage with my "fists" and make the rest of the run past the Chained Court a lot easier. However while doing this and succeeding with a 100% killrate on HMP in a normal game, ensuring everything died while I had nothing equipped in my primary slot, I was not awarded the Strongman Diamond Badge.

So maybe I accidentally killed something when I used shotguns to weaken Demons in early levels or the couple of times I needed to blow a hole through a wall with a rocket, or maybe when I used Fire Skulls in the Mortuary it didn't count as fist kills, or maybe I accidentally left a weapon equipped in my primary slot when I melee'd something to death. However in the player records, it stated I have no fist kills on the Angel of Death, when I most certainly killed him with nothing in my primary slot, and I killed near a thousand Lost Souls in the run after Abyssal Plains got out of hand and an aborted attempt at getting the Iron Skull medal, yet the records listed only a few hundred fist kills on Souls. So are those records off, or does using Juggler to attack with a melee weapon in your prepared slot count as killing with that weapon instead of what is in your primary slot? And does using non-fist weapons at all prohibit you from getting fist-based badges/medals? Additionally, are item-based kills like from the Fire Skull attributed to your equipped weapon, or are attributed differently?

For one more piece of information, I did admittedly save scum to get the Scavenger Platinum from The Vaults during this run, where I did quit out and copied my save file back over until I succeeded in teleporting into the center vault. Would that have messed up the game's record keeping that resulted in my pre-Vault fist kills not counting?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 23:54 by Omega Tyrant »
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LuckyDee

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Re: How exactly do fist-only runs work?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 23:58 »

As far as I know, the only thing that counts is dealing every killing blow with your fists. If you kill something with your secondary weapon, you're screwed - having your primary slot empty doesn't change anything. In fact, I think you can even clubber something to death with a non-melee weapon in your primary and still succeed. Shooting something to near death and then punching its lights out is also a valid - albeit risky - strategy.

Barrels/skulls/acid/lava/nukes and other non-weapon damage doesn't affect this badge. Save scumming should not affect run stats in any way.

I might not be 100% correct here, but I think I'm close at least.
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Re: How exactly do fist-only runs work?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 02:54 »

It used to be that whenever anything died on the level, it was attributed to the weapon in your primary hand. So if a barrel chain reaction goes off due to a monster attack, and another monster dies several barrels later, that kill gets tallied under whatever you're wielding in your hand. I haven't personally tested that for quite a few versions though.
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khiijol

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Re: How exactly do fist-only runs work?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 07:18 »

So maybe I accidentally killed something when I used shotguns to weaken Demons in early levels or the couple of times I needed to blow a hole through a wall with a rocket, or maybe when I used Fire Skulls in the Mortuary it didn't count as fist kills, or maybe I accidentally left a weapon equipped in my primary slot when I melee'd something to death.

its probably one of these - for my run i used the shotgun very very carefully on the early levels for the demons making sure that nothing else could possibly be hit by them and switched to legitimate fist-only after i got vampyre, saving the chainsaw only for the shamblers, cyberdemon and mastermind. after the shamblers i also skipped every special level to avoid tense situations where i'd be tempted to pull out a bigger weapon
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Tormuse

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Re: How exactly do fist-only runs work?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 08:35 »

or does using Juggler to attack with a melee weapon in your prepared slot count as killing with that weapon instead of what is in your primary slot?

This.

Previous versions of the game allowed you to exploit Juggler trait to get easy fist kills with a prepared Chainsaw, but they fixed that in version 0.9.9.7.
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Omega Tyrant

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Re: How exactly do fist-only runs work?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 15:26 »

Yeah Juggler's strategy page on the wiki stated how kills were attributed to what you had in the primary weapon slot, so that you could exploit it to get "fist kills" while using a melee weapon in your prepared slot. Good to know that info was outdated and I'll get to fixing it.

Confirmation though on how non-direct and item-based kills are attributed? Is that still based on what you had in your primary slot when a monster dies? Are they attributed to fists regardless of what you have equipped? Or are they just not factored altogether?
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